Extended crank to start

[dave110]

So this issue you're having. Your title says extended crank but later on you say slow crank. 2 very different things. Which is it? I've had extended crank issues twice. Once was an IP that was just worn out and once for a slow booting ECM which is why I brought up the delayed WTS lite. I've had slow crank issues too which ended up being  worn out starter contacts as listed above. So are we talking 'slow' or 'extended?

[Marcus2000monster]

Extended. 

[Hawkez]

I would look into it losing prime somewhere

[Marcus2000monster]

13 minutes ago, Hawkez said:

I would look into it losing prime somewhere

Currently nothing is happening out of the ordinary we will see what happens in the near future. I did repair a frayed fuel pump power wire that could have been causing it. 

[Royal Squire]

The slow crank can appear so gradually that you may not realize how slow it really is until you repair the starter. 

[Marcus2000monster]

What would cause my truck to start loping when it’s idling? 

[Mopar1973Man]

17 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

What would cause my truck to start loping when it’s idling? 

 

Either air in the fuel or bad injector pop pressure (too low). If the injector pop pressure is too low the spray droplets get too big and the fuel doesn't ignite easily which creates a lopey idle typically. I would say it time to look at injector pop pressure and verify you have no air in the fuel. 

[Marcus2000monster]

Just now, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Either air in the fuel or bad injector pop pressure (too low). If the injector pop pressure is too low the spray droplets get too big and the fuel doesn't ignite easily which creates a lopey idle typically. I would say it time to look at injector pop pressure and verify you have no air in the fuel. 

Gee I don’t want to pull them Iv only got 10k on them now. Air in fuel was my thoughts. Might put in alll new fuel lines and really look over that fuel tank outlet again. That’s where my last AIF issue came from.

[Mopar1973Man]

Just now, Marcus2000monster said:

Gee I don’t want to pull them Iv only got 10k on them now

 

@pepsi71ocean only had 28k and he was below 280 bar. 

 

My first set of SAC 7 x 0.0085 injectors where under 280 bar within 7k miles. They do settle sometimes creating these issues. Like my current 7 x 0.008 VCO are somewhere around 80k miles and getting too low in the pop pressure. 

[Marcus2000monster]

32 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

@pepsi71ocean only had 28k and he was below 280 bar. 

 

My first set of SAC 7 x 0.0085 injectors where under 280 bar within 7k miles. They do settle sometimes creating these issues. Like my current 7 x 0.008 VCO are somewhere around 80k miles and getting too low in the pop pressure. 

Wow that’s surprising. Well looks like I’ll be pulling them. May just send my oem sticks in for a rebuild. Should I do that or buy brand new Bosch injectors?

[pepsi71ocean]

2 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Gee I don’t want to pull them Iv only got 10k on them now. Air in fuel was my thoughts. Might put in alll new fuel lines and really look over that fuel tank outlet again. That’s where my last AIF issue came from.

 

When you put the injectors back in did you loosen the blue lock bars before you tightened down on the high pressure nuts? They are to go on snug, and then after you tighten the nuts down then tighten the injector hold down brackets?

Have you tried parking the truck downhill to rule out a fuel leak?

 

As for me, I went from 300 bar to 280 in 33,000 miles. I wouldn't doubt that the injectors could be popping off low.

Edited December 8, 2018 by pepsi71ocean

[Mopar1973Man]

3 hours ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Wow that’s surprising. Well looks like I’ll be pulling them. May just send my oem sticks in for a rebuild. Should I do that or buy brand new Bosch injectors?

 

Just what @pepsi71ocean did was send in his +100 HP injectors and had them re-popped above stock and now cleaned up all his extra smoke and still starting good. I think there is a variable for altitude here that might change some of this.

[Marcus2000monster]

4 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 

When you put the injectors back in did you loosen the blue lock bars before you tightened down on the high pressure nuts? They are to go on snug, and then after you tighten the nuts down then tighten the injector hold down brackets?

Have you tried parking the truck downhill to rule out a fuel leak?

 

As for me, I went from 300 bar to 280 in 33,000 miles. I wouldn't doubt that the injectors could be popping off low.

Not sure if I did that or not it’s been a while since I installed them 

[dripley]

I dont know whether I have done it that way. But I would think it would be the last thing to do in the process just to keep the lines loose enough to  re connect. @pepsi71ocean just wondering what the reasoning is behind this? 

[pepsi71ocean]

10 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Just what @pepsi71ocean did was send in his +100 HP injectors and had them re-popped above stock and now cleaned up all his extra smoke and still starting good. I think there is a variable for altitude here that might change some of this.

 

I believe that altitude, and injector size affect pop pressure and the amount of overage you can go whithout stalling and operational issues.

 

5 hours ago, dripley said:

I dont know whether I have done it that way. But I would think it would be the last thing to do in the process just to keep the lines loose enough to  re connect. @pepsi71ocean just wondering what the reasoning is behind this? 

 

It was a trick I learned from a diesel mechanic I knew who was in his 70's. he said that you can't have a high pressure leak if you loosen the lock bars and the lines. He told me that sometimes if you have the blue lock bars tightened you can't get a good sealing on those high pressure lines, and while you may think your snug plus a 1/8 turn that your really not. He stated that you need to let the parts seat naturally, and not be forced to be in alignment. He said that in 40 years of diesel work he's never had to deal with a high pressure leak from a diesel when doing it that way.

 

He said torquing goes as follows.

 

Injection Pump->high pressure nut->injector side of high pressure nut->Injector hold down bar-> blue lock bars.

 

i will say that since I've started doing this I haven't had any issues with high pressure leaks since. Although i can say that at least our trucks are easier to align, try injectors for a common rail haha.

[dripley]

2 minutes ago, pepsi71ocean said:

Injection Pump->high pressure nut->injector side of high pressure nut->Injector hold down bar-> blue lock bars.

Thats pretty much how I guess I do mine. Just never give the blue lock downs any thought. I know I loosen them to get the lines loose and doing them last just seems natural.

[Marcus2000monster]

Good to know Pepsi. When I get the spare money I’m going to buy oem injectors and I’m thinking about having them set them above standard pop so when they settle in hey will run better. 

[pepsi71ocean]

8 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

Good to know Pepsi. When I get the spare money I’m going to buy oem injectors and I’m thinking about having them set them above standard pop so when they settle in hey will run better. 

 

I wouldn't set them above 300 bar if they are stock injectors. IMO then you run a risk of starting issues. Popping them higher is only useful on larger injectors and its a theory with only 4 members reporting back about using them.

 

The larger the injector the more slippage you can get, I have heard that some guys can set them 10% higher without issue on stock injectors, but then your missing timing.

[Mopar1973Man]

I'll be the next to head down this trail. I going to do the 320-325 bar range but most likely jump to 7 x 0.010 injectors. I'm going to use my OEM stock injector bodies and have them nozzled up and jump in the game. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[dave110]

All this talk about injector failure makes me hesitant to pull the trigger on a set. I certainly don't want to replace injectors every 20k miles.What brand injectors are we talking? I trust and like DAP but I realize it's a budget injector. Is it worth spending more money for a better injector like Infinite? Or is this a performance injector problem in general?

Edited December 9, 2018 by dave110