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Karl

2000 3500 no power,sucks fuel like it's free

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Newbie here and I don't want  to beat a dead horse,BUT,! Here I go. Have a 2000 3500 dually, 5spd ,4:10s 185000 miles. This thing is useless,very disappointing TRUCK,but I like it!  On the same roads,pulling the same loads that I did with my 401 powered Jeep Cherokee. This TRUCK would never keep up! I have replaced the lift pump, injection pump, all the filters, clean the fuel system out, rebuilt the turbo, replace the gate valve. I have good fuel pressure, plenty of boost. Sucks fuel like it's free. Everything except for gate valve is stock.No exaggeration,,, it Hardly pulls my 1car trailor.Ready to burn it! I got it to carry my truck camper an tow my trailer with JEEP on it at the same time. Not gonna happen  HELP

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Have you done a boost leak test?  What does plenty of boost mean? 10 psi? 20 psi?

 

Read the live data going down the road from the sensors, such as map values?  A low reading map sensor can make the truck hard to reach 65 with.

 

How fast are you trying to tow?  

 

Stock tire size?

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Stock tires. Just installed a new autometer boost gauge. Just like to drive the speed limit. If I get on the pedal,it will hit  30lbs boost. Don't want to race, just do it's job. Have replaced map sensor, it was the first thing I did because it showed an over boost code that never came back,but haven't checked its reading 

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Does it have tuning?the ecm wont allow for 30 psi of boost to build.

 

Get live data from the sensors, something doesnt make sense

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185K miles your injector are most likely shot. You'll need to pop test and consider a replacement.

 

Then stock tune ECM is rather deeply retarded in timing if your towing. It will eat the fuel like no tomorrow. 

 

Good set of injectors and tuner would do you more good. You don't have to go wild either. 

 

4.10 gears and stock tire size is going to be awfully low geared and limit your high way speeds below 65 MPH

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As I stated,its totaly stock except for waste gate actuator. I am not exaggerating the lack of Towing ability  with this truck . It takes everything that has to get it going  over one of my local Bridges from a traffic light stop. I was going to put a tuner on this truck to help with Towing, but I'd like it to run like it should first..At 55Mph on a flat Road, with no load, it runs 6 lb of boost. At 70 on a flat Road is 14 lb of boost at  24 hundred RPMs.  Getting up to highway speed say 60, with my single car trailer with my Jeep on it, at 50 miles per hour, it goes up to 23 pounds of boost very slowly. I don't know if that's correct or not.. about the only thing on this truck that I haven't changed is the injectors.

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Posted (edited)

Going into a defuel mode because of no tuner present. Once boost gets to 19 PSI the ECM starts cutting fuel. By 25 PSI it will be fully defueled and tripping P0234 code for over boost code. Boost has to stay below 19PSI for stock setup.

 

You need to highly consider buying a Quadzilla. This would fix the boost problem it comes with a boost fooler and allows for fuel as far as you want to. Timing control to get MPG up better since the stock ECM is retarded in timing pretty good. 

Edited by Mopar1973Man

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Could that be caused by the gate actuator.? I find it very hard to believe that this TRUCK can't pull it self up a hill with out a tuner

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Reduce your MAX boost below 20 PSI.

 

 

Stock ECM is restricted to below 20 PSI period above that fuel is cut deeply. This is totally normal for stock tune truck it's only 235 HP at the flywheel. Different story when you add a tuner now all those restrictions are removed and the sky is the limit for power. The other problem anything above 2,000 RPM typically is a loss for MPG's. 4.10 gears are too high of a ratio for highway travel. 3.55 with stock tires typically do better. Like myself I'm running the 245/75 R16 on 3.55 which produces final ratio to the ground of 3.69:1.

 

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Personally I would keep 410s and put bigger tires, like 35s would be good. I had 35s on my 12v valve with 410s it worked good. Problem becomes, they will rub on control arms when turning and will wear on front end parts. Id try that before paying for gear swap though, maybe a used set. 

You will see a big difference with bigger injectors and a tuner. I would say if you get a quad get 7x10s vco, have them popped at 320 bar when ordering, DAP can do that. You can get by with hx35 for a while but will see a huge difference if you get something like 62/68/12 or 14 oe even 62/65/12, there is a nice little turbo dap sells called k27, it's an upgrade from xh35 and not to big, it would work good with like rv275 and a some kind of boost fooler if you didn’t want quad. I thought about getting k27 then went with a custom turbo from North American Turbo to keep my exhaust brake and have slightly bigger turbo then k27.

It all depends on what you want from your truck and how much you want to do with it. If you're keeping it stock, then put a set of RV275's and bigger tires, even something like 295s to get closer to 33-34" tire maybe stay skinny 295 and under to keep rubbing on control arms down.

If you have money get twins, qwad, injectors. Ether way you go I would be looking at studs, and better valve train with pushrods, unless you're staying mostly stock with RV275's and your hx35 then you should be fine, just add boost fooler. I don't even think you'll need quad with that set up, in my opinion it's comes in handy with bigger turbo and injectors, plus you'll need to figure out how to use it, which is not hard but time consuming. Once again if you got money then get a quad, can't go wrong with it on vp truck. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm a little confused. Earlier you said you could get up to 30 psi which to me means you would have at least a boost foolet of some sort. Then a couple post back you cant hit but 24 pulling a trailer with little power. That woild be indiicative of stock defuelig at high boost levels. A stock truck will do this at about 20 psi. I too have an after market waste gate actuator that opnes around 33 to 34 psi. When my tuner crapped the bed I had to drive and tow by the boost gauge and keep it below 20 psi. 

 

So I have to ask,

Have owned the truck since new to know its has not modified?

What after market waste gate actuator are you runninng?

What size tires do you run?

Edited by dripley

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ICould that be caused by the gate actuator.? I find it very hard to believe that this TRUCK can't pull it self up a hill with out a tuner

I may have mis-spoke about the 30. When I drove it on Fri. I wrote down what boost gauge was reading. 55mph flat road,no load, 6lbs.  60 mph 8lbs.  70mph ,14lbs at 2400rpm. Going back home with car on trailor...getting up to 60 very painfully, 23lbs. I am not changing tire size and understand the 4:10 aren't the best. But this thing should pull a house.

I am not the orig .owner. far as I can tell it's all stock. Except waste gate actuator. 

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14 minutes ago, Karl said:

ICould that be caused by the gate actuator.? I find it very hard to believe that this TRUCK can't pull it self up a hill with out a tuner

I may have mis-spoke about the 30. When I drove it on Fri. I wrote down what boost gauge was reading. 55mph flat road,no load, 6lbs.  60 mph 8lbs.  70mph ,14lbs at 2400rpm. Going back home with car on trailor...getting up to 60 very painfully, 23lbs. I am not changing tire size and understand the 4:10 aren't the best. But this thing should pull a house.

If you have your foot in it and it is making 24psi the ECM is defueling the engine. The stock actuator should open at near 20 psi unless it is stuck shut which yours might be since you are seeing 24 psi. I am surprises you are not setting an overboost code. Have checked for codes?

 

I am not trying to get you to change your tire size, just curious what size are on there? Thats all.

 

You are right it should pull a house, mine on 3:55 gears and 15k pound 5th wheel will pull better than yours with the tuner off. At least it sounds that way. There is something else going on.

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@Dieselfuture is right on the mark. :iagree: With Dieselfuture...

 

  • Quadzilla Adrenaline
  • 7 x 0.010 Injectors @ 320 bar
  • HX35/40 Hybrid (60/60/12)
  • 4 Inch exhaust
  • BHAF

13.68 MPG towing my RV - 31 foot Jayco Eagle @ 8,000 pounds.

21.32 MPG running empty

 

Making roughly 500 HP to the ground.

 

 

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I agree with both you @Dieselfuture and @Mopar1973Man. Hope I can get there one day. Tired of turning the Comp down so it does not smoke.

 

But I am thinking that @Karl wants it stock from what he is saying. Plese corret me if I am wrong.

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10 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Can't have both. Can be stock powered and expect lot of power towing.

I agree with what your saying but it sounds like his truck does not pull as good as mine, stock, and I have 3:55 gears and 15k pound trailer and he is only pulling 9k or so with 4:10's. Just seems like something is out of whack.

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Data log you map sensor.  Boost reference is how the ecm works.  If the ecm isnt seeing boost coreectly then it will be slow.

 

Doesnt matter if you have a new map sensor or not still need to check what the ecm is seeing.

 

The truck should pull a house, but a stock 2nd gen is anything but fast or a towing monster.

 

190 wheel hp and ~350 ft lb stock.

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Waste gate actuator came from Thoroughbred Diesel unsure of the brand name but I know it's adjustable.

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Posted (edited)

Actuator or boost elbow? My actuator is not adjustable but a boost elbow adjusts the pressure to actuator. May be the one you have is. And @Me78569 is dead right about the ecm seeing boost properly. 

Edited by dripley

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I've had my truck for over 12years. Ran it for a few years severely down on power thinking I was needing a pump soon, did some research talking to blue chip he even thought my pump was the cause.

Then somehow I ended up on the phone with ducky fuel injection a few phone calls later a set of 7x09 injectors were on the way.

Ohhh my the stock injectors had like a inch thick of black carbon built up on them. The fuel was spraying through thick carbon tracks. 

I knew instantly the new injectors were going to livin up it up. Ohhh  boy did they and they even payed fir themselves in much better fuel mileage.

 

If not wanting a programmer. 7x09, boost fooler and turn buckled waste gait will make plenty of power for towing.

I would recommend at least 7x09

 Stock or rv injectors seems a waste cause youl later put bigger in

 

My truck pulls grades much cooler with boost fooler and waste gate locked shut.

Fluttering at just over 20psi defueling runs much hotter up grades, 

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Mr Chicken...your correct in that I want the truck stock, some what. I just believe that it should be made to run properly before any additions. If I bought this thing new and it wouldn't pull my single car trailer, I would have parked it back at the dealer but fast. It's my 1st diesel and it took me a long time to get it. I understand that the 410 gears limits this truck. But the RPM range that it does comfortably run in, it should pull. I've been twisting wrenches and pounding dents for 40 years but never worked on a diesel until I got this truck. But I'm stubborn I'll figure it out one way or another! When I had the turbo off of the truck. We redid All the surfaces and replace the wastegate valve it works fine it also made no difference whatsoever. I think it has something to do with the map sensor? Just because something's new doesn't mean it's any good. I checked codes yesterday and it does have an overboost, code but the check engine light never comes on. The way this truck runs it must be on constant defuel. Oh and I don't recall tire size, but it's stock according to the door jamb. Could I have the wastegate actuator adjusted  wrong also?

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Without tuning / boost fooling the ecm will not allow for anything over ~22 psi.  If you are over that the ecm will defuel to try and keep boost low.

 

You cant increase boost via wastegate changes or boost elbow without doing boost fooling / tuning at the same time.

 

Please data log your sensors and figure out what the ecm is seeing.   Codes dont always trip cels.  Overboost is saying the ecm has been defueling.

 

 

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How can I tell if injectors have ever been changed?  Guess you use a scanner to check  the map sensor ?

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