Bigger injectors without tuner?

[skyhigh4by]

A quad is on my list of things to buy but I’m not that far down the list yet. My truck needs new injectors sooner than later though. I would like to go with something in the 7x.009 range(100hp) 

 

Can I get away with running the bigger injectors before installing a tuner? What might it run like? I imagine they would greatly benefit from the timing adjustment that comes from a tuner but would it still be streetable for the time being? 

[Bullet]

Yes there wouldn't be any problem doing that.  You will feel a mild bump in power by the seat of your pants-o-meter.  There would be a little more smoke on a hard acceleration but not a lot.  You won't be fogging out intersections or anything like that.  Otherwise it would run clean under normal driving and be a little more peppy.  You could even go up as high as 7x.010's or 150hp injectors with a similar effect.

 

Tuners and/or fueling boxes (Quad, Smarty, TST, etc.) exaggerate the fueling and that's when you'll have the capability to roll coal.  But more importantly tune it to get the more power with minimal smoke. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Be smoky. No fuel management. No timing. Stock ECM is fairly retarded.

 

I've got to have the Quadzilla on to keep the smoke under control. Then with the Quadzilla off the MPG falls pretty good where with the Quadzilla there is a really good gain.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Mopar1973Man

[Evan]

I ran 100hp I injectors woth a boost fooler. Lots of smoke plenty of power good fuel mileage. Only smokes if your in it hard. 

 

Yes itl fog out a intersection. 

 

I also ran without boost fooler and waste gate was not clamped shut.

Very dramatic reduction in power compared to running with boost fooler and waste gate clamped shut.

Also picked up cooler egts and an easy 10psi woth bother and waste gate clamped shut.

 

I'm now running a smarty, now smokes more and only makes alittle more power. I haven't noticed much change in mpg. I do like that I have more pep from idle to 2200 rpm

 

I think I'd be torn on turbo or quad as my next upgrade. Probly turbo to get mechanical side first.

[Mopar1973Man]

23 minutes ago, Evan said:

I'm now running a smarty, now smokes more and only makes alittle more power. I haven't noticed much change in mpg. I do like that I have more pep from idle to 2200 rpm

 

Smarty S-03 tuner is designed for stock injectors and caps out the timing too low. Smarty doesn't have enough timing for larger injectors. Like Me78569 has posted up the Smarty tuner data logs it caps out at like 19° BTDC where like with 150 HP injectors I'm running upwards of 23° to 24° BTDC at roughly 2,000 RPM cruise state. 

 

 

If I capped out at 19° degrees like Smarty does then my MPG drops off to about 17 MPG.

[Evan]

Yes. I'm running no additional timing towing and alittle when empty.

 

I'm not to concerned with timing I'm averaging 17-18 towing alittle om each tank but over 90% of each tank is running the freeway empty 9400lb truck weight.

 

I haven't messed with timing vs mo timming ti lnow if it changes mpg. Probly nit I rarely push the pedal over half way. Smoke seems about the same to.

 

Smarty does fuel more down low and I like that. Even sw6 fins just right. No timming added.

 

Injectors, boost fooler and turn buckle run nice to with factory tune with boost reaching 30 easy and maxing at 35-38 depending on grade and weight being towed. Doesnt have the off idle pep that smarty brings to the table.

Also cool egts.

 

Quad would be super cool to have but unneeded smarty also not needed. 

Also not sure about timing and 23deg no head studs and pulling a grade at 3/4 or full throttle. Empty that would be badass.

 

I'm at the just drive it point. Enjoying the power and ability to run grades loaded and not peddle off egts for an entire pull.

I also get decent mpg considering 35s, 3.55s and a truck that's 9400lbs empty.

[Mopar1973Man]

Pulling grades Quadzilla drops back to 15° to 17° when under load. Very safe for towing. Then when I hit flat ground it jumps back to cruise state timing.

 

Just wished there was a way to see actual timing with S03 Smarty.

[Evan]

But dunno cant tell a difference with or without. What's weird is I think it idles smoother no timing added. But at idle shouldn't be affected, right?

[Bullet]

I started out with just 7x.010's and a Smarty...and with the Smarty on kill the smoke wasn't any kind of a problem for daily driving.  Daily drove it like that all the time.  Of course when I mashed on it, it would smoke but nothing like what it is capable of now with additional fueling and mods.  Maybe our definition of smoke out an intersection is different.  Because currently if I put the Smarty and TST Comp on kill or even moderately high settings, still with 7x.010's, I literally can create smoke density like I have never seen before...to the point of blacking out everything in the rear view mirror...up until the turbos spool of course.  Of course I don't drive like that but that capability is there whereas it wasn't before with just the 7x.010's and Smarty as the only mods. 

 

But just going with 7x.009's as the only mod done to the truck is not a big deal and definitely not a problematic smoker. 

[Mopar1973Man]

My definition of smoke is anything that can be seen in your mirror as you accelerate. If you can see it so can law enforcement. The question is how dense does the smoke have to be per state to get you in trouble? Idaho, if you can see it it just gives the police a reason to pull you over because then they look at an exhibit of speed or speeding ticket. Been there done that... Didn't get the ticket but was given a harsh warning. 

 

[Bullet]

Lol...my definition of smoke is nothing else can be seen in your mirror.  The trigger for exhibition of speed here is more associated with tire squealing.  Some smoke is not a big deal here... there's alot of deleted and modded 4x4 diesels in TX.  If I fogged out an intersection they might have a problem with it but I don't do that so I would never find out. 

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Bullet said:

Lol...my definition of smoke is nothing else can be seen in your mirror.

 

Yup. That varies from state to state. 

 

1 hour ago, Bullet said:

The trigger for exhibition of speed here is more associated with tire squealing.  Some smoke is not a big deal here...

 

Lucky. Just a cop hearing the Powerstroke with a whistling turbo is enough to get him to pull you over. 

 

1 hour ago, Bullet said:

there's alot of deleted and modded 4x4 diesels in TX.

 

Locally there is a change that if you delete a truck a deal will not take as a trade in. For the dealer to sell a deleted truck put him at risk of the Federal fine for selling deleted vehicles. There are some deleted but not many up here being that Boise area actually smogs diesel trucks and inspects for DPF and EGR equipment. Out where I'm at is safe for delete.

[Bullet]

When I lived in Houston they would smog the gassers but no emission regs at all for diesels.  They would check my blinkers and headlights and sticker me up for $13...while the gassers got the tailpipe treatment to the tune of $55.  It was laughably ridiculous.  Now that I'm out of the big city no emission regs here at all for any vehicles.  Diesel trucks here get deleted soon after warranty or the first time they experience an emission related problem that costs money to fix.  I imagine trading in a delete would be a problem here too but the market is so strong here that there's no problem selling for more than what a dealer would give you. 

[Stormin08]

On 6/4/2019 at 10:59 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Pulling grades Quadzilla drops back to 15° to 17° when under load. Very safe for towing. Then when I hit flat ground it jumps back to cruise state timing.

 

Just wished there was a way to see actual timing with S03 Smarty.

 

could one run the smarty, along with a quad on a stock setting and data log ?

 

i thought nick had some runs showing this ?

[Mopar1973Man]

You could be defeat the purpose of owning a Smarty why would you buy a Quadzilla just a monitor a Smarty timing?

[Bullet]

My thoughts exactly...why in the world would you want to do that?  That's like buying a mainframe computer to diagnose your commodore 64.  It just doesn't make any sense...lol!  Yes it can be done but why would you? 

[kzimmer]

To collect data and to learn?

[Bullet]

That's an expensive and time consuming lesson!  I would rather just read. 

 

 

@Me78569had the luxury of exposure to both and has already done an extensive amount of data logging on the Smarty and was generous enough to post it all on here for us to analyze.  I have spent a lot of time just going through his logs...cuz it takes a lot of time.  There is much more info on the Smarty on here in regards to revo settings and sw settings and how they work together done by @pepsi71ocean.  These two guys have taught me a tremendous amount about the Smarty. 

 

Since I run a Smarty and a TST Comp I have done a lot of reading of all that info.  But if you want to reinvent the wheel and spend $700+ to do it...by all means go for it.  I will be happy to read your findings...but the info is already on here. 

 

@Me78569had@Me78569had@Me78569had@Me78569had

[kzimmer]

Yes, I'm very aware of that. You asked a question and I answered. And that's what Nick did for all of us, collected data and learned, so we could learn.

[Bullet]

1 hour ago, kzimmer said:

Yes, I'm very aware of that. You asked a question and I answered. And that's what Nick did for all of us, collected data and learned, so we could learn.

Sorry no offense...it was more of a rhetorical question.