Built 47re 2-3 Bind Up Help

[Reaper22]

Hey guys, first post! Stoked to be here. Anyways... I bought my truck about 2 months ago and it came with a built trans from Hartnell transmission in Redding. I proceeded to snap the Billet input shaft Which was obviously defective, and this was repaired under warranty that was thankfully transferred to me. They replaced the converter, pump, put in an Aermet shaft that I paid for, and cleaned out the rest of the trans. While the trans was out I had them put in a billet accumulator and 2nd gear servo, 4.2 ratio lever and billet anchor and strut (TCS combo kit). Before this work, the trans shifted great. Now that it’s back in, the 1-2 shift is super fast, near instant and very firm. Perfect, in my opinion. The 2-3 shift has an obvious bind up where the truck slows momentarily before the shift. Once the shift actually happens, it is firm and quick as well though not as good as the 1-2. All other shifts are great, no problems downshifting. I’m going to loosen the band again to see if this helps but it didn’t seem to have any effect when I adjusted the band the first time. The trans stays very cool so I don’t think anything is dragging when it’s in a gear. I used Dex/Merc with a bottle of lubeguard black. Would the band adjustment be different with the 4.2 lever?  What would be my next steps in diagnosing this bind up? 

[Me78569]

@Dynamic  thoughts?

[Reaper22]

I should also mention 2 things, I read Dynamics response to another post on a similar issue. However I have no idea what my clutch clearances are or how I would find or set them, I’m deeply hoping I can fix this with the pan/VB off without pulling the trans, but I gotta fix it either way. I also have a new Gov sensor and transducer, Sonnax pressure regulator valve, lock up valve, and manual valve. Clutches aren’t upgraded, just new and stock clutch count.  My TV is adjusted properly with no slack and is hooked up properly. 

[Dynamic]

What servo was used?

 

What do you mean by "no slack" in the TV cable? How did you adjust it? At what RPM does your WOT 1-2 shift occur?

 

EDIT: Also, how is your front band adjusted with that 4.2?

Edited March 13, 2020 by Dynamic

[Reaper22]

Just now, Dynamic said:

What servo was used?

 

What do you mean by "no slack" in the TV cable? How did you adjust it? At what RPM does your WOT 1-2 shift occur?

WOT 1-2 is a little high at 3100ish. I pulled the clip off at the APPS and pulled the cable through until there was no play between the throttle and the TV lever. That is, they moved at the exact same time at slight throttle. TCS 2nd gear billet black servo. 

[Dynamic]

OK. TCS servo is good. How is the band adjusted?

 

TV cable is too tight. Back it off until WOT 1-2 is between 2800 an 2900 rpm.

 

What valve body work was done? Were all of the springs that came out of the intermediate servo put back in? Was there just one, or were there two?

[Reaper22]

8 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

OK. TCS servo is good. How is the band adjusted?

 

TV cable is too tight. Back it off until WOT 1-2 is between 2800 an 2900 rpm.

 

What valve body work was done? Were all of the springs that came out of the intermediate servo put back in? Was there just one, or were there two?

Ok I’ll tweak the TV, the band was way way too loose when I got it, massive 1-2 flare. I tightened it snug by hand then out 1.5 turns and tightened the jamb nut down. As for the valve body the guy at the shop told me it “has all sonnax valves”. I’ll attach the original build sheet. I have no idea about the intermediate spring(s). Would I have to pull the trans out to get into that servo? I wish I could build these things myself, so I’d know this ****. 

[Dynamic]

Ughhh... And the prices these corner transmission shops charge people for these "built" transmissions. SMH... I digress...

 

There are 3 Sonnax valves on the invoice, which basically aren't going to do much by themselves; certainly nothing that's going to do much for performance. If that's all that has been done to the valve body, then you don't have much by way of improvement.

 

It's tough to offer much advice on band adjustment without knowing your line pressure, but 1.5 turns is too tight. I would start at 2 turns and go from there. I run my builds at 2-1/4 turns with a 4.2 lever, but then again, I build custom valve bodies for every transmission that leaves here.

 

Why isn't the transmission shop that "built" it dialing this in for you? Why did they let it go with a massive 1-2 flare and a 3100 rpm WOT 1-2 shift point?

[Reaper22]

11 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

Ughhh... And the prices these corner transmission shops charge people for these "built" transmissions. SMH... I digress...

 

There are 3 Sonnax valves on the invoice, which basically aren't going to do much by themselves; certainly nothing that's going to do much for performance. If that's all that has been done to the valve body, then you don't have much by way of improvement.

 

It's tough to offer much advice on band adjustment without knowing your line pressure, but 1.5 turns is too tight. I would start at 2 turns and go from there. I run my builds at 2-1/4 turns with a 4.2 lever, but then again, I build custom valve bodies for every transmission that leaves here.

 

Why isn't the transmission shop that "built" it dialing this in for you? Why did they let it go with a massive 1-2 flare and a 3100 rpm WOT 1-2 shift point?

No joke, when I saw the invoice after the guy told me it was built I laughed, he told me it was good to 900hp. Anyway, I’m in LA and the builder is in Redding about 8 hours away. I pulled the trans myself and shipped it to him, given I don’t have time for that drive up and back twice and he offered warranty on it. I can re read moparman’s sticky on reading line pressures and likely get them to you this weekend. I just spent $1100 on the aermet shaft and the TCS kit and I’m not exactly heavy in the pockets so sending it to someone that knows what they’re doing is a tough move for right now but I could stomach a VB if it’s needed. What would you say my next step is? 
Honestly, my truck is stock except for an edge and the exhaust/intake and I plan to keep it that way for some time. I don’t need a trans for big hp, but I know that bind is gonna shorten lifespan. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Reaper22

[Dynamic]

OMG... And they sold you an Aermet shaft? You don't even need a billet shaft at all at that power level. And 900 hp? Ummmm... NO. I'm going to shut up before I say something I might regret later, but this level of incompetence drives me to the nuthouse.

 

At this point, I'd put a pressure gauge in the accumulator port and see what you have for line pressure. That will tell me a lot about what (if anything) has been done in the VB.

 

You'll want to check:

Pressure at idle (in Drive).

Pressure at WOT at full stall while stationary (in Drive). NOTE: Do this in an area with nothing in front of you. Your brakes may not hold the truck. Just hold it long enough to get the reading and then let off.

Pressure at all shift points under normal acceleration (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock).

Pressure at WOT shift points (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock).

Pressure at WOT with converter locked (this will give your max overall pressure with boost valve on).

 

This may seem like a lot of info, but it can all easily be gathered in a 5 minute test drive.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Dynamic

[Me78569]

35 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

OMG... And they sold you an Aermet shaft? You don't even need a billet shaft at all at that power level. And 900 hp? Ummmm... NO. I'm going to shut up before I say something I might regret later, but this level of incompetence drives me to the nuthouse.

 

At this point, I'd put a pressure gauge in the accumulator port and see what you have for line pressure. That will tell me a lot about what (if anything) has been done in the VB.

 

You'll want to check:

Pressure at idle (in Drive).

Pressure at WOT at full stall while stationary (in Drive). NOTE: Do this in an area with nothing in front of you. Your brakes may not hold the truck. Just hold it long enough to get the reading and then let off.

Pressure at all shift points under normal acceleration (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock).

Pressure at WOT shift points (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock).

Pressure at WOT with converter locked (this will give your max overall pressure with boost valve on).

 

This may seem like a lot of info, but it can all easily be gathered in a 5 minute test drive.

@Dynamic   We trust your insights here as you have proven to be honest.   We trust your bullshoot-o-meter.

 

Thanks.

[Reaper22]

39 minutes ago, Dynamic said:

OMG... And they sold you an Aermet shaft? You don't even need a billet shaft at all at that power level. And 900 hp? Ummmm... NO. I'm going to shut up before I say something I might regret later, but this level of incompetence drives me to the nuthouse.

 

At this point, I'd put a pressure gauge in the accumulator port and see what you have for line pressure. That will tell me a lot about what (if anything) has been done in the VB.

 

You'll want to check:

Pressure at idle (in Drive).

Pressure at WOT at full stall while stationary (in Drive). NOTE: Do this in an area with nothing in front of you. Your brakes may not hold the truck. Just hold it long enough to get the reading and then let off.

Pressure at all shift points under normal acceleration (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock).

Pressure at WOT shift points (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, TCC lock).

Pressure at WOT with converter locked (this will give your max overall pressure with boost valve on).

 

This may seem like a lot of info, but it can all easily be gathered in a 5 minute test drive.

Seriously, thank you for helping me and everyone else out. I’ll work on getting those measurements this weekend and post back here when I get them. 
Thanks again. 

[Evan]

Watching.  

My 2-3 shift is okay but never been as quick as I'd like.

 

[Reaper22]

20 minutes ago, Evan said:

Watching.  

My 2-3 shift is okay but never been as quick as I'd like.

 

That’s what annoys me, I don’t have consistency between all shifts. If they all felt the same, clean with no bind, I would be ok with raising line pressure until I got the right feel I was looking for. Anyone else get hypersensitive to every little thing once something goes wrong? I lack confidence in this trans now :/

[Evan]

Need to know what kinda of pressure you have before raising it. 

I've found very slight TV pressure changes can affect shifting alot. 

Like dynamic said loosening TV cable might help improve shift feel. 

 

I to like dynamic. Hes not a bullshiter

[Reaper22]

Hey folks, now that everything in LA has been shut down I’m getting to this pressure testing. So I have a 300psi gauge and some grease gun hose but It’s only 12”. I can do the tests on jack stands with a buddy in the cab and me on the ground but will they be different than if I were driving? Would barb fittings with a hose clamp and some tubing be enough to hold the psi I’m gonna get out of the accumulator? If not what should I use

[Haggar]

grease gun hose is usually 1/8" NPT on the ends.  get some couplers and hook more hose to it.  Harbor freight has 2' hoses some times.

 

hose barb and clamps is iffy at 300.  what sucks its really a mess if it blows loose. 

 

Another option look for a local hydraulics shop.  He might have an old hose laying around and most ends are like $12 installed.

 

HTH
 

Hag

[Dynamic]

I do NOT recommend that you try to perform those test with anyone under the truck. You need to get some more hose. And, yes, you'll want to perform the test under actual driving conditions.

[Reaper22]

Alrighty, @Dynamic I gotcha some numbers.

Pressure at idle (in Drive): 68

Pressure at WOT at full stall while stationary (in Drive 4hi): 122

Pressure at all shift points under normal acceleration (20-30%)

1-2: 90

2-3: 92

3-4: 115

TCC lock: 92

Pressure at WOT shift points 

1-2: 110

2-3: 110

3-4: 130

TCC lock: 120

Pressure at WOT with converter locked: 122
Give or take a few psi on the WOT shifts, kinda hard to watch a gauge accurately when ur pinned to the moon. 

[Dynamic]

Those are bone stock line pressure numbers. So, we're dealing with a stock valve body with a couple of Sonnax valves in it. It completely blows my mind how little some transmission shops actually know about how this stuff actually works.