Front brakes dragging

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Bingo... All the exactly correct answers. All pros. 

 

Then con's only con I found is don't be dumb and come down a slick slope with only 2nd drive it will lock the rear tires and start it sliding uncontrolled. 

 

Pros....

 

You can combo with my high idle kit and apply the exhaust brake for super fast warm up. Do take note doing this adds more carbon ot the oil But it possible to warm up from -20*F to full 170*F coolant in under 10 minutes. 

 

If you want real rumble like a big truck...

 

yes please

[That Guy]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Bingo... All the exactly correct answers. All pros. 

 

Then con's only con I found is don't be dumb and come down a slick slope with only 2nd drive it will lock the rear tires and start it sliding uncontrolled. 

 

Pros....

 

You can combo with my high idle kit and apply the exhaust brake for super fast warm up. Do take note doing this adds more carbon ot the oil But it possible to warm up from -20*F to full 170*F coolant in under 10 minutes. 

 

If you want real rumble like a big truck...

 

 

I was really hopeful for that, but it seemed to fall thought due to lack on investors. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

The exhaust brake on my 351ve will slip the rear tires on a wet road in 3rd gear. It just doesn't have the effect of cracking like a jake though.

[Russ Roth]

8 hours ago, That Guy said:

The exhaust brake on my 351ve will slip the rear tires on a wet road in 3rd gear. It just doesn't have the effect of cracking like a jake though.

 

You would get tired of that real quick.  Drove detroit 2 cycle engines with twin stacks, cab high and that lasted a day before I got muffs.  Driven series 60 detroits a bit and they have the absolute loudest jakes I ever drove.  Twin stacks again, taller but noisy as all get out.  Having said that I would like to have a real jake for mine but not for the noise.  No gain there unless you love it.

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, Russ Roth said:

 

You would get tired of that real quick.  Drove detroit 2 cycle engines with twin stacks, cab high and that lasted a day before I got muffs.  Driven series 60 detroits a bit and they have the absolute loudest jakes I ever drove.  Twin stacks again, taller but noisy as all get out.  Having said that I would like to have a real jake for mine but not for the noise.  No gain there unless you love it.

I occasionally uncap the headers on my 350. When I'm done, I hop in the Prius and enjoy the quiet. 

 

Old grey beard once told me, your weekend toy and daily driver can't be the same thing. I think that applies here.

[jtrakel]

Little bit of an update on my truck and the brake issue and yes I'm well aware of the benefits in having an exhaust brake. This is a separate issue of the passenger brake dragging,  I'm not concerned with more efficient braking at this time. I need to address the fact of after a short drive with normal to light braking applications I can smell the brakes.

 

I have replaced the passenger caliper and both brake lines on the front end. I've bleed the entire system and gone for a drive, the truck drives and stops fine, when I get home and jack the front end up the passenger side brake is noticeably dragging vs driver side when i spin the wheel.

 

Could I be looking at a new brake booster, I'm running out of time sadly to troubleshoot this rig before my trip across the US next month and may resort to paying a shop to investigate and replace 

Edited August 23, 2020 by jtrakel

[Tractorman]

On 7/25/2020 at 9:35 PM, Tractorman said:

When you can, take your truck for a test drive.  Use the brakes only as much as needed.  After driving for awhile, pull off the road and check the temperature of each front rotor.  You can use your hand (carefully) or an infrared thermometer.  If you don't feel or see a major difference in temperature, then probably all is well.  If the passenger side rotor is much hotter than the driver's side, then you know you have a problem.

 

@jtrakel, did you perform the above test?  If so, was the passenger side rotor significantly hotter than the driver's side?

 

1 hour ago, jtrakel said:

Could I be looking at a new brake booster

 

No.  The brake booster doesn't know left from right or front from rear.

 

1 hour ago, jtrakel said:

I need to address the fact of after a short drive with normal to light braking applications I can smell the brakes.

1 hour ago, jtrakel said:

I've bleed the entire system and gone for a drive, the truck drives and stops fine,

 

Are you sure that you are smelling brakes?  If you are smelling brakes caused from a dragging pad on a rotor, I would pull off the road and check each rotor on both axles.  The one that is overheating should be obvious.

 

- John

 

[jtrakel]

1 hour ago, Tractorman said:

 

@jtrakel, did you perform the above test?  If so, was the passenger side rotor significantly hotter than the driver's side?

 

 

No.  The brake booster doesn't know left from right or front from rear.

 

 

Are you sure that you are smelling brakes?  If you are smelling brakes caused from a dragging pad on a rotor, I would pull off the road and check each rotor on both axles.  The one that is overheating should be obvious.

 

- John

 

 

I plan to buy a thermometer tomorrow and check temps but by feel the passenger side feels warmer than driver side.

 

Yes I’m 100% positive I’m smelling brake pad after using the brakes for a couple stops, really the smell presents itself after a decent slow down but nothing crazy just as you would normally do heading for a stop light.

 

I assume there is no sort of proportioning valve in the brakes? My truck is 4x4 with 2 wheel ABS in the rear (front disc, rear drums). 
 

Quickly running out of ideas, will report back tomorrow.

[That Guy]

There is a valve Between the front and rear circuit, but not left to right.

 

Does the wheel pull at all when braking?

Sure the rotor isn't warped? 

 

Are the slides for the caliper properly greased and free through the range of movement?

(I have thought I did in the past and caused an initial pull to the right)

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Too many forget to change brake fluid every 30k miles. I'm betting that the front caliper pistons are caked up and need to be cleaned and new 5 dollar seal dropped in. Be done and fixed. If you keep your brake fluid changed before it darken to black it will reduced this problem. I only had caliper problem in the beginning. No longer now that I keep brake fluid changed every 30k miles. Not even a problem with full stroke of the brake pedal, the master cylinder is still OEM. 419k miles later...

Edited August 23, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[jtrakel]

7 hours ago, That Guy said:

There is a valve Between the front and rear circuit, but not left to right.

 

Does the wheel pull at all when braking?

Sure the rotor isn't warped? 

 

Are the slides for the caliper properly greased and free through the range of movement?

(I have thought I did in the past and caused an initial pull to the right)

 

 

 

The brakes are not pulling at all, I'm going to check the rotors today to ensure they are looking strait etc. I just replaced the caliper and greased the slides in the process.

 

6 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Too many forget to change brake fluid every 30k miles. I'm betting that the front caliper pistons are caked up and need to be cleaned and new 5 dollar seal dropped in. Be done and fixed. If you keep your brake fluid changed before it darken to black it will reduced this problem. I only had caliper problem in the beginning. No longer now that I keep brake fluid changed every 30k miles. Not even a problem with full stroke of the brake pedal, the master cylinder is still OEM. 419k miles later...

 

I just flushed the entire system, the caliper has been replaced again. I'm trying to not throw to many parts at it right now, I don't see replacing the drivers side caliper as an option either as the wheel rotates freely! 

 

[Haggar]

J,

What does your ABS system look like?  Does it look like this?

 

The valve (item 6)  "looks at" your rear ride height and allows rear brakes or not based on that height.  Yours could be out of adjustment, making your rear brakes not work.  So all your stopping is on the front brakes.   Have you tried to bleed your rear brakes?  Sometimes the problem will really show up then, very little flow.  

 

When this is working properly, during normal riding rear brakes work normally.  if you jam on the brakes and the nose dives and the rear lifts, flow to the brakes is blocked so the rears won't "lock up".   If you have changed ride height or the parts are worn or non functional, you are doing all the work with the fronts. 

 

HTH
Hag

[jtrakel]

7 minutes ago, Haggar said:

J,

What does your ABS system look like?  Does it look like this?

The valve (item 6)  "looks at" your rear ride height and allows rear brakes or not based on that height.  Yours could be out of adjustment, making your rear brakes not work.  So all your stopping is on the front brakes.   Have you tried to bleed your rear brakes?  Sometimes the problem will really show up then, very little flow.  

 

When this is working properly, during normal riding rear brakes work normally.  if you jam on the brakes and the nose dives and the rear lifts, flow to the brakes is blocked so the rears won't "lock up".   If you have changed ride height or the parts are worn or non functional, you are doing all the work with the fronts. 

 

HTH
Hag

 

I did a bleed on the rear brakes this past week, it wasn't a high flow but fluid was coming out until it was nice and clean. I will have to look at this valve as I believe this is the same set-up I have (4x4 w/ABS in rear only drums) The nose does tuck when hard applications however i'm still scratching my head why the passenger side is dragging while the drivers side is not. I'm able to do this by lifting the front end and spinning the wheel with a good kick. Both brakes engage however when off the pedal the drivers side rotates freely while passenger does not.

[Haggar]

Sorry,  I thought you got past your front brake dragging.

 

My suggestion, change the hose to that caliper.    If you want to try and prove it, jump in the truck (off is fine, running is better)  Jam on the brakes like you are about to get in an accident.  Run to the front caliper you suspect (or have a buddy do it, just do it after you have released the brake pedal) (you can have the wheels turned to it is easy to get to the bleeder and have your wrench hanging there.) and open the bleeder.  If it squirts out (like there was residual pressure) you need a new hose. (it won't squirt much, but basically if it does anything more than make the bleeder moist it is your problem.)

 

The minute you remove your foot from the brakes, the master cylinder piston position should return to a neutral position, allowing free bake fluid flow back to the master.  (this is why you can just push the pistons back when you change brakes.)  so when you open it, there should be ZERO residual pressure.

 

I have personally changed quite a few of these on dodges for this reason.  in my limited data set, they have mostly been passenger side too.....  (no idea why)

 

GL

HTH
Hag

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, Haggar said:

I have personally changed quite a few of these on dodges for this reason.  in my limited data set, they have mostly been passenger side too.....  (no idea why)

Oddly enough, same experience. 

 

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the primary form of abs for rears that little manifold with the 2 white cylinders that sits under the master cylinder and is plumbed in after the valve that turns on the brake light? The 2 white cylinders are accumulators that allow it to vent pressure from the line are the not? 

 

I have seen the proportioning valve above the rear axle, but I always thought it was more of an initial limiter as it doesn't have the allocation to vent pressure once there. True that if it has missing hardware, the rear brakes will be sub par. (My linkage was gone when I got my truck. The arm was free to hang, and what little brakes it had back there were ineffectual.)

 

My 94 chevy with RWAL has the same thing under the master but does not have the proportioning valve on the rear axle. 

[jtrakel]

2 hours ago, Haggar said:

Sorry,  I thought you got past your front brake dragging.

 

My suggestion, change the hose to that caliper.    If you want to try and prove it, jump in the truck (off is fine, running is better)  Jam on the brakes like you are about to get in an accident.  Run to the front caliper you suspect (or have a buddy do it, just do it after you have released the brake pedal) (you can have the wheels turned to it is easy to get to the bleeder and have your wrench hanging there.) and open the bleeder.  If it squirts out (like there was residual pressure) you need a new hose. (it won't squirt much, but basically if it does anything more than make the bleeder moist it is your problem.)

 

The minute you remove your foot from the brakes, the master cylinder piston position should return to a neutral position, allowing free bake fluid flow back to the master.  (this is why you can just push the pistons back when you change brakes.)  so when you open it, there should be ZERO residual pressure.

 

I have personally changed quite a few of these on dodges for this reason.  in my limited data set, they have mostly been passenger side too.....  (no idea why)

 

GL

HTH
Hag

 

 

Both of the front brake lines have been replaced, I threw in the towel and took it to a shop today for some other work on the transmission and asked for the brakes to be inspected. Hopefully they find something.

[Haggar]

Thanks for getting me to look into this.  (sorry it wasn't your front lines....  that is so much easier...)

 

All my trucks have the 4wheel.  I didn't realize the 2wabs had sortof a little "brain" too. 

 

 

Item 2 is  a pressure limit.  I agree it should work like an accumulator.  

 

The rear level valve is pretty stupid, but GM and Ford did it for years too.  My 86 suburbasaurus had it too....  I think since it is a rotary valve, as it closes off the flow, it increases in volume a bit to reduce pressure on the rear wheel cylinders.  (so they don't stay locked up...)  I could be totally wrong but I don't know why you would blind off an already locked rear wheel.....

 

Good luck!   I hope they find your issue and it is easy to fix!

 

Hag