Another quad - mpg question

[dieseldon]

Happy holidays to all !!

Here's hoping '21 will be better !

Sorry for another mpg question and I'm sure this has probably been discussed to death somewhere??

  So I've owned my truck for almost a year now, I don't drive it much, mainly bought it for hauling camper, dirt bike and such, I don't think I've put more than 6 - 7 tanks of fuel thru it, maybe 3 since I got quadzilla.

 Was I mistaken thinking I was going to get better milage with the quad?

 I love the way it runs, and I drive pretty conservitaly most the time and I have yet to get over 12 mpg ! That was before and after quad, no difference other than power, which is nice but??

 Now I'm still extremely new to the diesel world and all these charts and graphs of timing, fuel curves, volumetric tables, etc.. just seem to make me more confused 🤔😵

 I'm really wondering if I should have just got the edge comp and been done? I was reading somewhere moparman was getting an additional 7 - 8 more mpgs with just the comp box. Oh well, too late now.

  When I'm not towing I'm usually driving mostly city and running the"daily driver with meat" level 3, I really like the tune, but does anyone have a good economy tune/tunes like one for city, low speed driving, and one for hwy with stock to 75 hp injectors? Time to save for bigger ones? Should I be driving with a higher or lower level?

 I kinda remember doing a idleing load test right after I got the quad to test injectors and everything was fine, assuming that test actually works?

 Or just maybe some advice/opinions on what's happening here? Or some easy to understand settings with small words in bold type, LOL!

      Thanks!

[Mopar1973Man]

You gotta build a tune for the Quadzilla the default tune is not a good one. 

 

All my tunes are built around 150 HP injectors and my turbo HX35/40 Hybrid. I could build you a tune based out of my tune possibly. My last trip to Lewiston, ID with bitter cold no winter front was 18.5 MPG and running 65 to 68 MPH. 

 

The biggest thing is not the fuel map but the timing map. Timing mean more that the fuel map. You can have a bad timing map and lose MPG like a stone. Timing wise you looking to make your engine load the lowest. If your timing is off by a little it will typically slide down in MPG. Fuel map can be anything you want for power. Like my Eco mode is limited to 120% Canbus. I don't even use level 3 but level 2. Fuel up to 100% that it but the timing can make or break a good tune. 

 

Most start out too high. The 1,500 band I suggest either 13 or 14 degrees. Then figure +3 step up or +4 step up. Like myself I pull all my tunes currently and looking to get my tune to working properly just touching 20 MPG like the past. But my truck has been down more than driven but now I'm trying to resolve the oil leaks. 

 

Wire tap make sure you set the starting pressure at 15 to 20 PSI you do not want wire tap coming on while daily driving but only if you lay into the power. 

 

Cruise timing you want to aim for about 19* at 2,000 RPM. 

 

How many miles on your current injectors? Wore out injectors with low pop pressures will degrade the performance as well. If the pop pressure is slipping down below 293 bar the they are done and wore out. Stock is 310 bar. Lot of injector builder set them for 300 or 305 bar and short the life span for more fuel. I'm running 150 HP injectors from DAP (7 x 0.010 @ 320 bar) and made 14.3 MPG towing my RV all the way to Arizona. 

 

6 hours ago, dieseldon said:

I'm really wondering if I should have just got the edge comp and been done?

 

No. I walked away from Edge Comp very smokey tune at +50 HP injectors. No smoke control without losing power. No timing control at all. So you have to drive 55 MPH or slower to get good MPG. I owned a Edge Comp for 11 years of service and will NEVER return. Junk Edge Comp tuner compare to Quadzilla. Which does everything a normal performance guy is looking for. 

 

Again the biggest thing is setting up timing. Like my timing... 

 

13.0, 17.5, 22,0, 26.5 27.0 - Start at 13 Degrees then step up +4.5 per band. 

 

Cruise timing I measure out the cruise engine load at 65 MPH on flat ground I can typically hold about 19% so giving a small buffer set it for 22%. I'm only using now a +1 cruise timing. Max load timing is 3. Low P{SI timing 2.5*, then timing reduct scale 40% I shorted the reduct timing because under heavy throttle launching it was going dead quiet (no rattle). This is a sign of too far retarded. That right there is all the timing. Timing you play way more. Every time I make a good choice the power gets better on level 2 so far enough to get the tires to spin lose in Lewiston. (Thain Grade). If you make a bad choice then the power is degraded. This is without changing fuel or wiretap settings again with level 2 fuel map is cut to stock. So the only thing can gain power at this point is timing tuning. When that's dialed in then you can get to the fuel tap and other stuff to pour on even more fuel.

 

So at  this time on my last trip running Level 2. (No added CANBus or Wiretap fuel Only stock ECM 100%) I'm capable of getting the tires to spin free from light to light in Lewiston. No added power from either CANBus or Wiretap but just running good timing and the power comes so well it will break the tires lose with only just the +150 HP injectors. (No CANBus fuel bonus, No Wiretap fuel bonus). This shows how just timing can make or break a tune.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[dieseldon]

Thanks for the help/info moparman!

I really have no idea how old or miles are on my injectors, was just told by previous owner they were swapped out awhile ago?? I remember right before I purchased quad I was wondering about replacing, testing. I decided the cost of testing I may as well replace them, or get the quad, (didn't have fund's for both) which I wanted anyhow and then I would have a way to test load at idle, etc. can't even remember now but there was a number that ment the injectors were pretty much toast? And mine "passed" not sure how reliable that was?

 

 Anyhow, I guess that daily driver with meat tune hasn't been helping my mpg's ?

 I might go out and fiddle with testing, monitoring, adjusting later, just don't feel like wasting a bunch of fuel right now for testing purposes only.

 I'm going to try these settings for now, please let me know if you see any red flags or any suggestions, maybe lower rpm timing max? thanks!

 

[dripley]

I cant help with the quad part if you were only getting 12mpg before the quad something else is going on. Large tires, 4:10 gears maybe, tired injectors.

I am running a Comp on mine and did pick up 1 mpg from 18.5 to 19.5 on a pure highway drive. Never heard of any one gaining 6 or 7 mpg from one. I have the same issues as @Mopar1973Manmentions with his. It does give decent power but you are better off with the Quad than the comp but you have to work at it some. In stock form these truck should get in the 17 to 18 mpg.

[dieseldon]

Thanks for responding Driply,

No I don't have big tires, or 4.10 gears, or lifted, etc. The only real unknown are my injectors I guess? The only way to know for sure is get tested?? And like I said, by the time you do that might as well get new ones. $700 - $800 plus !

It's hard for me to justify on a hunch. Not to mention the wife!! 👹💥⚡🔥!

Does someone know anything about that load test for injectors?

 

 Here's some old posts from moparman and his milage without comp box, 12 - 13. With box he was getting 20+. Maybe I'm missing something else that was going on? Obviously he's changed his thinking on comp box, but was that an anomaly?

Back to my original question, are we supposed to be picking up mpg's with the quad or??

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dripley]

Very cold weather and high cetane fuel that he was most likely running will do it too. And that was without the Comp. I dont run in near as cold as Mike and what little I have has not given me the benefit of really knowing my mpg in those situations. Plus if that was a lot in town driving that will bring the mileage down too. I can get around 14 mpg around town and in the winter. The 17 to 18 I refer to is on a highway/interstate run. I think @Mopar1973Manhas hit 27+ with his with some very specific driving habts for mileage.

As far as new injectors go, have a look over on @dieselautopower. They can had for a lot less than 

IIRC on the Quad, check your engine load at idle and it ought to be around 8% to 10% for good performing injectors. 

[dieseldon]

In fairness most driving was either towing or city. I really need to go on a proper trip some day, LOL!

Just checked load number, 18 -21 ,(cold) not sure if it matters if it's warmed up? Timing was a tad over 20.

 

Between my age now and the meds I take for pain I forget way more than I can take in with this thing, but I just remembered this: I read somewhere here that the quad is also supposed to compensate for worn injectors with a proper tune?

I'll try my other tune and see if it helps, and try to avoid city driving.

 On a side note, what is the mpg offset for, supposed to do?

 I know quadzilla and y'all have gone into great detail about how to operate this thing but personally myself who doesn't know jack about diesel's to begin with a lot of the instructions might as well be written in Arabic, but every now and then something sticks!

 

     Thanks again!

 

 

 

Edit, too bad quad couldn't come up with a instant mpg or driving coach like most other tuner's out there.  I guess you could use the ECO or GALLON TRIP?

[dripley]

Towing and in town driving would explain the low mileage. Towing my 5th wheel got me 11,5 mpg and around town like mentioned earlier about 14. The best I have ever seen is 22.5, interstate again. 

I dont have quad myself so I am not sure how to use one, My knowledge is limited to what I have read here. it is much more versatile that the Comp. It is mostly designed for a stock truck. Mine is smokey with the RV 275's and more so with the 50's that I have. Clears up pretty though, but I dont like the smoke. The quad gives you the ability to tune to what you have and not just to stock set up. But I like you might only se Arabic if I read the instructions. The Comp Just has power levels and you can adjust when the fuel comes a little. No ECO tune, you have to do that with your foot. Had a Banks tuner before that with no adjustments what so ever on it other than your foot.

[dieseldon]

I would be happy to get 14 around town, but sadly the 11.5 - 12 is empty, light foot for most part, ( other than when that annoying powerstroke pulled beside me!) haven't towed anything since Sept.

Maybe the auto trans makes the difference?

[Dieselfuture]

My town driving is usually 16s in summer and 14s in winter on hwy I can still get low 20s in summer and 18s in winter if I drive around 60-65ish speed seems to be the killer for me, on rear occasion I can get 19 going 75 

[dripley]

My stick would do bit better than a auto. My in town Is more of an educated guess since with my travels I never burn a complete tank in town. Another thing I have to factor in is the winter and summer time when my truck is my office and it can end up idleing for 3 or 4 hours depending on how hot or cold it is out. But on the highway with my last VP and the Comp with the pump tapped I could consistently get 19 to 19.5 mpg running 70 to75 mph. I am down to 18.5 now on a new VP and the pump untapped. Going to tap this pump in the near future and see what happens.

[LorenS]

4 hours ago, dieseldon said:

what is the mpg offset for, supposed to do?

One of the gauges you can choose to display is MPG.  I'm not sure how one goes about figuring out where to set that. If you start driving the truck enough to know how far off the factory overhead unit is, then I suppose you can tweak the Adrenaline MPG Offset.

I don't bother with that gauge.

[dieseldon]

Thanks for posting, ok now I get it, problem is I don't have the overhead unit 😭

Did you gain any mpg's with quad?

   Thanks!

16 minutes ago, LorenS said:

One of the gauges you can choose to display is MPG.  I'm not sure how one goes about figuring out where to set that. If you start driving the truck enough to know how far off the factory overhead unit is, then I suppose you can tweak the Adrenaline MPG Offset.

I don't bother with that gauge.

 

2 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

My town driving is usually 16s in summer and 14s in winter on hwy I can still get low 20s in summer and 18s in winter if I drive around 60-65ish speed seems to be the killer for me, on rear occasion I can get 19 going 75 

 

Thanks dieselfuture, did your mpg's change with the quad?

   Thanks!

 

  Maybe my low mpg's are due to truck only having 220,000 mi, everything is still too tight and not broken in yet! 😉

 Seriously, I think/hope I just need to do some tweaking with timing and such as moparman mentioned.

[LorenS]

8 hours ago, dieseldon said:

Did you gain any mpg's with quad

I don't know that I did, BUT that is because "Spirited driving" has become more of the norm often enough to affect my mileage. I love level three, but if I had giant injectors and turbo like Mopar1973man does, level two would be fun.

 

When my Adrenalin is set to zero, I'm about as stock as they get. I have a set of injectors to go in, just need the time.

[Mopar1973Man]

100% is true stock. 

 

143% is equal to the 150 HP (7 x 0.010) I'm running. 

[dieseldon]

On 12/27/2020 at 3:44 PM, dieseldon said:

 

Just checked load number, 18 -21 ,(cold) not sure if it matters if it's warmed up?

 

Well apparently it matters!!

Just checked load after warmed up and it's between 8 - 10 idleing in park, 

28 - 30 in gear idleing.

 Do these numbers mean anything different to anyone regarding injectors??

  Thanks!

[Mopar1973Man]

Just at idle in park or neutral and 8 to 10% is good yet. When it hits zero engine load and the RPM is higher than 800 RPM. Your injectors are done.

[dieseldon]

Thanks for the quick response Mr. Moparman!

[LorenS]

Yesterday I drove 570 miles round trip. Thinking about this thread I set my Adrenaline to level 2 and tried my best to maintain 70 MPH.

 

I averaged over 18.5 MPG.

 

For a couple of miles through the Flint Hills of Kansas I went back to level zero (stock). I noticed it was rare for the timing to get near 15 degrees, it stayed in the high 13s and 14s mostly. Compared to my tune, where I'd be up at 21 degrees a lot. Going up the steeper hills it'd drop down to 15.5 or so.

 

In Park and idling, timing advance is about 13.4 degrees on my truck (that is unaffected by the Adrenaline).

[dieseldon]

Not to shabby LorinS ! But then again I was getting that ( 17-18 ) in my prior GMC gasser cruising 75-80 mph,  ( 08 4x4. 1500 ) but put my camper behind it and was lucky to get 7 - 8, forget about the hills here in Idaho !! I'm curious what level gets the best milage regardless of tune, and then of coarse getting/making a good mpg tune !

 

  I'm not really complaining about milage in the dodge, (or am I? LOL!) I think it comes close to my gasser cruising empty, ( although hoping for better ) and way better when towing, it's just that fuel and maintenance is way more and I really had in my head that the quad was going to give some better mpgs, back when I was trying to decide between quad and comp box our local performance guy assured me that with the comp I would instantly gain at least a few mpgs, and he said he had sold and installed lots of them. I'm wondering if a comp box clone tune

(Is that possible?) Would accomplish the better mpgs ?? Or is that just a myth ?

 Guess I'm just a little frustrated/confused that I haven't gained any milage with quad that I can tell.

 It is awesome for towing tho !