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2006 Dodge 3500 - Installing Valair (quiet) dual disc clutch


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  • Administrator
Posted (edited)

I'm moving forward on building my shop truck. I've got the Valiar Quiet Towing Dual Disc clutch from @dieselautopower.  Started this morning getting the old flywheel and flex plate out. Come to find out the rear main seal is weeping. So, I got @Jthorto run to NAPA and pickup a rear main seal for $40. But here is what I've got...

 

Rear crank seal is wet. Change it now while the clutch is out...

20210319_112522.jpg

 

Then slam in the flywheel...

20210319_112537.jpg

 

Here is the friction disc stack.

20210319_112559.jpg

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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Posted (edited)

650 HP holding power and perfect for this truck being next is injectors and a tuner. Truck will be heavy and possibly hauling the RV for jobs too so. That way we can make home on long projects than driving back and forth to home. I've got jobs in the field now that is killing me in fuel going back and forth for tools or supplies. 

 

2006 Dodge Ram 3500 (SRW) - G56 transmission, 4WD truck with a gooseneck ball... Oh that "Full Force" box is a set of injectors for @Jthor 1995 Ford F-350 7.3L injectors. Stage 1 injectors and 160cc pumps. 

DSCF5213.JPG

 

Still gotta get the title swapped over to Idaho and have a VIN inspection. 

DSCF5214.JPG

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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I put a Valair clutch in mine many years back and the throw out bearing only lasted 70k. It was un marked for a brand so I had no Idea who made it. Just food for thought.

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I’ve driven that clutch with a G56 a bit and they are quiet, at first. Unfortunately it doesn’t last and the gear rollover on a dual disk G56 is horrible. 
 

Why a dual disk? You can’t tow heavy at 650rwhp on a G56 or stock cooling system... let alone stock turbo. 
 

Setting up a G56 to tow heavy doesn’t need a dual disk, just a 400-450hp single disk. Which is more than enough for a heavy tow tune on a stock turbo. Smoother and quieter. 
 

50-100hp injectors and a custom tune on any of the custom platforms will be best. Bigger injectors, the stock turbo, and box tunes don’t do as well for towing as it’s too much duration. Just for reference I ran ~80% of the stock duration with my BBi Stage 1’s and put down 415/850 to the rear wheels. No box tune does that, and they all would have run much hotter too. I still prefer the MM3/Touch as they have more tables to adjust for better driveability, at least the last time I checked. 


If you have any CR custom tuning questions shoot me a note. 

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Sorry I didn't get any photos of the install but it all together and running. Short drive up the highway and it's quiet compared to my 2002. I'm planning on new injectors next and wastegate solenoid. This truck is going to pulling trailers and hauling weight. Oh yeah I will be putting either EFILive or a Smarty on this truck. Already had a nice long chat with @dieselautopower (Jacob Kidd) and going to use most of that clutch capacity.

 

Wonderful to get it running for the first time in about 3 years. 

 

I've  got one more task before VIN inspection is getting the tail lights fixed and clean up the wire mess behind the rear bumper.

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Posted (edited)

You are overly optimistic planning on towing heavy and using most of that clutches capacity with the stock turbo. Even a hot non-tow tune on the stock turbo doesn’t need that much clutch. 
 

You can still have a very powerful and effective heavy tow tune, just not at 650 (or even close). 
 
Glad it’s up and running thou! Trucks sitting broken sucks. 
 

Is the current wastegate solenoid broken?

Edited by AH64ID
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Yeah previous owner did know about the wastegate solenoid the wires were pulled out of the solenoid. Hence why it has CEL on.

 

Who said towing was the only thing? This truck might play a bit too when I get it finished. True I might not tow with that much power but I'll play once in awhile with others.

 

Work in progress...

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Gotcha. Bummer, those are expensive. 
 

Still, the stock turbo can’t push 650 without running too hot. 500-550 is feasibleish. 
 

What injectors are you looking at?

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Posted (edited)

Who said the stock turbo will remain in the truck forever? I can't do it all right away but it will be replaced at some point too. I'm planning ahead and leave options open for going farther forward in power. 

 

Right now I'm not exactly set on any per say size of injectors yet. My design was looking dor about 500 to 550 HP.  As a goal but I've several other thing to fix too. Poorly done leveling kit that is trashing the steering and suspension. Get rid of the 33 inch tires and get the final ratio back nearl stock. Again this is a long term project and planning ahead now instead of upgrading again later. 

 

I've gotta balance things being my 2002 is down and out right now with fuel gauge issue, charging issue, and volt gauge dropping for no reason while the alternator is still charging 14.3 volts. (This is a another topic).

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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Is this a heavy tow truck or not? You claim it is, until the mods don’t match... hence the questions and comments. 
 

I’d go with ~100hp injectors for heavy towing and go from there. Even those won’t use as much as stock duration for a heavy tow tune, and might use stock duration for a light tow tune. The CR world isn’t the same as the VP world. 

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23 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

The CR world isn’t the same as the VP world. 

It's definitely more expensive that's for sure. I got a daily driver vw tdi that I put a cp3 on instead of what it came with cp4 and had all kinds of nightmares trying to tune it so it ran well, got it close but still not perfect. Of course I don't have the software and tools to do it so I had to pay a guy hourly to use his stuff while we were going back and forth on emais with another tuner guy that was trying his best to get it run smove. I've put 50k on it this way it's good enough for going to work and I don't have to worry about cp4 blowing up top end ruining the entire fuel system. Stupid vw, gm, and whoever else decided to save few bucks going to cp4, why mess with a good thing, they must of saved $50 on production line, bastards.

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It’s certainly more experience, and not as simple either.... especially with the 04.5-07 piston design.

 

Ram was also in the CP4 club for 19-20, but went back to a CP3 for 21. Rumor is the CP4 is 1/2 the cost of a CP3, yikes!! It runs at higher pressures too. 

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19 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

Ram was also in the CP4 club for 19-20

Must have been a fiat decision not Cummins, or so I hope. 

22 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

especially with the 04.5-07 piston design

What did they do so special, forgive me I don't know much about newer trucks, other than I'm not ready to buy one yet. 

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2 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

Must have been a fiat decision not Cummins, or so I hope. 
 

 

Allegedly Cummins spec’d the pump, not FCA.  

 

2 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

What did they do so special, forgive me I don't know much about newer trucks, other than I'm not ready to buy one yet. 


Cummins was trying to avoid an external EGR so they used a non-reentrant piston deign. That piston has a very shallow bowl and thin lip which makes it more prone to melting and doesn’t tolerate high cylinder temps like other pistons. It also leads to less efficient combustion which leads to more soot in the oil. 
 

When I put 03-04 pistons/injectors in my 05 the difference was amazing. Not one bad thing to say about the swap. 
 

The blue lines are with OE injector spray patterns. You can see the difference in fuel spray/combustion. 

8BBF37BF-66AF-4963-A153-4C46BD0123BF.jpeg

A4ECD819-0767-4511-AD09-EBA18218A1FA.jpeg

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And here for the longest time I fought 06,07 were better years to get before emmisions crap came out :duh: guess it's not bad years if you feel like swapping out pistons and injectors. I really like 4th gens, but the only way I would ever buy one if it was deleted, I'm afraid though in not so distant future they might be going after all other states that don't check for that sort of thing. Here in Iowa they started to crack down on tuner shops, telling them to stop deleting and tuning trucks, just matter of time before it's a law everywhere. Guess our 2nd gens will go up in price some more. I really feel like they are going to be a collectors item one day if diesel is still legal on the road.

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34 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

but the only way I would ever buy one if it was deleted

 

There is way to "software delete" 2007 up. So visually it looks complete but the software is completely missing. I've got my connection on how to get a hold of said tuners. You can keep all the emission stuff completely. So to make it really good is take the DPF beat the guts out of it. Reinstall. EGR Cooler put freeze plugs in both end. Then run your delete tuner.

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54 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

And here for the longest time I fought 06,07 were better years to get before emissions crap came out :duh: guess it's not bad years if you feel like swapping out pistons and injectors. 

 

They aren't bad, just not as strong as they could have been given a different route for meeting the emissions tier at the time. It's common practice these days to use 03-04 pistons on rebuilds, or even 03-04 injector spray pattern on 04.5-07 pistons. 

 

 

18 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

There is way to "software delete" 2007 up. So visually it looks complete but the software is completely missing. I've got my connection on how to get a hold of said tuners. You can keep all the emission stuff completely. So to make it really good is take the DPF beat the guts out of it. Reinstall. EGR Cooler put freeze plugs in both end. Then run your delete tuner.

 

I wouldn't call that a software delete, it's more of a stealth delete. The software is disabled, not missing. You have to either remove or gut the DPF, if you leave the DPF and have regen disabled you WILL have serious issues. 

 

It will likely pass a visual inspection (thou some are now looking for soot in the tailpipe) but not always guaranteed to pass a sniff test, depending on the tune. 

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Actually is a full delete. The last one I ran you must back up the stock ECM first. Then when you loaded up the deleted side the software for the different functions was deleted completely from the ECM. Now if you needed to  return back to stock function you could flash the back up on the tuner. But the actual software is DELETED from the ECM completely, not just disabled. That was the last 2012 Truck I dealt with being there was two different tuners I had to clean up. Required a "stock" reflash at the dealer then reset the delete tuner again everything work right this go around. There is no error codes, no warning messages, nothing. That particular truck was missing everything... 

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15 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Actually is a full delete. The last one I ran you must back up the stock ECM first. Then when you loaded up the deleted side the software for the different functions was deleted completely from the ECM. Now if you needed to  return back to stock function you could flash the back up on the tuner. But the actual software is DELETED from the ECM completely, not just disabled. That was the last 2012 Truck I dealt with being there was two different tuners I had to clean up. Required a "stock" reflash at the dealer then reset the delete tuner again everything work right this go around. There is no error codes, no warning messages, nothing. That particular truck was missing everything... 

 

Which tuner deletes the stock program? Not any I've worked with, they all just modify it. It's 100% custom and changed, but still based on the stock programming and all it's parameters. 

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