Nv4500 getting harder to get into gear

[Mopar1973Man]

Oil in the gear box should be fill till spilling out. No lower than about 1/2 below the hole. Typically use my pinky finger bend at the last knuckle and that is my dip stick.

Oil in the gear box should be fill till spilling out. No lower than about 1/2 below the hole. Typically use my pinky finger bend at the last knuckle and that is my dip stick.

[Doubletrouble]

 Would what seems to be excessive free play point towards the hydraulics?

 The clutch pedal moves 1/2-3/4 of an inch if you pull up on it. Would this indicate a bad/broken return spring inside the master?

 

[Tractorman]

1 hour ago, Doubletrouble said:

Would what seems to be excessive free play point towards the hydraulics?

 The clutch pedal moves 1/2-3/4 of an inch if you pull up on it. Would this indicate a bad/broken return spring inside the master?

 

I don't think so.  Mine pulls up quite a bit farther than that and I still have the OEM hydraulics that are working fine.  As long as the pedal sees resistance right away (from where the pedal rests), I think what you are describing is normal.  It still doesn't exclude the possibility of having air in the system.

 

- John

[dripley]

On 4/4/2021 at 12:13 PM, Doubletrouble said:

 There is a small gap I guess I'd call it where you can see the teeth of the flywheel. It looks dry. I would think that would get soaked in oil as well if there was a main seal leak. I will try looking at the bushings a little closer. Probably replace the clutch master and slave and see where that goes. I will pull the trans if needed after that. 

 On a side note, how does one check the fluid and level on the nv4500. I'm sure I could search it but since I'm here......lol

 

There should be a fill plug on the side of the tranny. On the drivers side on the 5600. I would think it would be on the same side for the 4500. the fluid would be just below the fill hole. Just stick your finger in there.

I should read a bit further before posting. But I would like to add that my pedal would pull up before I replaced the master but after the new install it does not pull up anymore. Same thing was true before the OE failed in mine many years back. Not sure what that means, just my experience.

[Tractorman]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

But I would like to add that my pedal would pull up before I replaced the master but after the new install it does not pull up anymore. Same thing was true before the OE failed in mine many years back. Not sure what that means, just my experience.

 

Originally, my clutch pedal would not pull up.  But one time while trying to detect a squeak under the dash, I pulled upward on the clutch pedal a little bit too vigorously and I heard a noise.  From then on the clutch pedal could be raised at least a couple of inches with no resistance.  I think a plastic tab broke where the pushrod goes into the master cylinder.  It has had no ill effect on clutch operation and as I mentioned before, I am still running the OEM hydraulics.

 

@dripley, this could have been why a new master cylinder corrected your situation.  @Doubletrouble, I don't think that the upward travel distance of your clutch pedal is a factor in the problem you are experiencing.

 

- John

[Doubletrouble]

 I finally had a moment to check some things. As suggested, I checked for a little fluid flow into the reservoir as the pedal was pushed down. There is none. As explained I guess this means the piston of the master is not fully retracting to too off the master cylinder? That would explain the issue, not enough fluid being moved to provide the necessary travel. Hence having to be pushed tight to the floor.

 Any thoughts? On the right track? Thanks all.

 Also, when I pulled the clutch pedal back something gave way. I believe it was the safety switch pulling away from the master. Is that supposed to happen? See pics......

[Mopar1973Man]

Your is done. Worn out...  Should not be signs of rust and moisture which you have this master is cooked and no longer good. While you at is order a new clutch safety switch from RockAuto. Once your up around 400k miles that switch will die.

[Doubletrouble]

 Yeah, I'm sure it's the hydraulics now. The switch doesn't look good either. Time to replace both. 

 Most of the kits come filled and pre-bled. Is there a way to check for air or maybe re-bleed the system before install?

[Mopar1973Man]

4 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Most of the kits come filled and pre-bled. Is there a way to check for air or maybe re-bleed the system before install?

 

Most pre-bled kits will cost you extra. Then there is roughly 1 and 10 chance that it work out of the box. So many times I've gotten pre-bled and have to pull the system back out and rebled the master and slave over again. The problem is with shipping and handling did any air travel back into the master? etc.

 

The last one I got from Valair worked out of the box but late... I had to pump the pedal several times to work some small amount of air out.  This is installed on the 2006 Dodge. I did one for Russ truck last winter and it was a prebled as well. PITA to get adjusted to prevent hyper-extending the throw bearing. If you do it will ruin the pressure plate fingers. Still got OE styled on my 2002 truck and manually bled every time no issues. 431k miles.

[Doubletrouble]

 I'll be getting an OEM type replacement. I don't see a need for the adjustable rod. It worked just fine before this, just want to get it back to where it was and won't have to worry about over-extending the slave.

 I'll find a video on bleeding the system and bench bleed it before install to avoid any issues if possible.

[Mopar1973Man]

My video is still around on the youtube channel. Just hang the whole assembly and pump hard and fast in on the slave cylinder and then slowly let it out. Slower the better that way you don't draw air back down from the reservoir.

[Doubletrouble]

 Found the video, thanks Mike!

[dripley]

I have replaced 2 on my truck, just the master cylinder. I did not remove the rest of the hydraulics. First time was not much fun the second worked pretty good. Not knocking Mike's way at all, Just another way to do it.

[Doubletrouble]

 Do these take dot3 brake fluid or a specific hydraulic oil? 

[dripley]

My 02 does. says to use it on the reservoir cap.

[Dieselfuture]

I put dot4 synthetic valvoline in mine when I replaced my hydraulics, walmart had some back then, haven't seen it lately, they have super tech and preston I believe now 

[Doubletrouble]

 I figured it was brake fluid. I ordered the master and slave. Thought best to just replace both. Decided to hold off on the switch, the one in the truck is working and those are expensive little buggers. Might be looking at another lay off due to this electronic chip shortage from china. It's really hitting the auto industry hard. So thought I'd save the money for the switch at this point. 

 Once the parts arrive I'll remove everything, assemble with new master, slave and bleed bleed bleed. Then reinstall.

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

Might be looking at another lay off due to this electronic chip shortage from china. It's really hitting the auto industry hard.

Makes one wonder what is really going on 

[Mopar1973Man]

Clutch safety switch is cheap through Rock auto.

 

For info purpose still zero problems with Mobil 50 SAE Transmission Fluid still a very good option for heavy towing.

[Doubletrouble]

9 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

Makes one wonder what is really going on 

 That's what I'm wondering. Is there really a shortage or is this china's way of getting our economy to go further into the crapper?

 

7 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Clutch safety switch is cheap through Rock auto

 I looked them up at rock auto, these are the only two they list. $58 seems a bit steep for what it is. Maybe there is one of those elusive chips in it?