I'm Back, Finally! And I have some good questions/ topics

[dripley]

@Stanleyget a quad. It takes more effort on your part to tune it, but the results will out do any canned tuner like the Comp that I have. But you will have to put more effort into it. Great for most but not for all. A presonal decision.

[Stanley]

I think I can agree on the quad from what I've read. I just would like to maybe get some insight on whats going on with my fueling and or timing currently, maybe give me clues on what I got going on in there since I have the world's of unknown going on lol.

[dripley]

12 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I think I can agree on the quad from what I've read. I just would like to maybe get some insight on whats going on with my fueling and or timing currently, maybe give me clues on what I got going on in there since I have the world's of unknown going on lol.

All that part with your fueling mods above my pay grade. I do believe I would have bought the Quad before the Comp had it been available when I bought the Comp

[Stanley]

I'm totally down to get one! I just need to be smart and find out if I have a problem in any fuel component first just in case I have to replace said item(s).

 

For all I know it could just be lean on fuel or timing or pop pressures... finding those out would make me a happy camper. I want to use my AC...😁

 

I'm also having grey smoke 🚬 too. Not black like it should be 

 

I'm gonna see about hooking up the Cummins Insight tomorrow and see what I can monitor. If I get something good I'll post it up.

[Stanley]

Still haven't been able to use the cummins I sight yet, probably will have to source some connections though, not sure what all cables we have...

 

I'm kinda surprised that not many people chimed in on my videos...

Grey smoke not completely black and popping has me concerned. 

I have read some have clocked the vp44 off one tooth, I have very good faith did not do that but then again no one is perfect... I'd lay money on it though🤣 

Might need a bore scope to check gears in the case...

[IBMobile]

On 8/11/2021 at 8:47 PM, Stanley said:

I'm also having grey smoke 🚬 too. Not black like it should be

Things that cause gray exhaust smoke are in this link below.

https://motorcompanyleicester.co.uk/what-causes-grey-smoke-from-a-diesel-engine/  

[Mopar1973Man]

I just had to do injector warranty for my buddy down the road. I sold him 140 HP injectors for his 94 12V Cummins. After he got back from the California trip he blew a head gasket come to find out he had white to grey smoke as well. 2 injectors had issues one he managed to crack the nozzle and the other was was popping strangely sometime popping correct and others no. We upgraded from reman'ed bodies to fully new bodies and DAP replaced all the needles and nozzles and re-popped. Back to running good. 

[Stanley]

3 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

he managed to crack the nozzle and the other was was popping strangely sometime popping correct and others no.

As in popping noise or pop pressures? 

 

The thing is it could be any fuel component? I don't wanna buy another vp44 especially a dragon flow. I could have it tested at Northeast Diesel but the down time......

 

My boss thinks the advance spring in vpp44 could be weak and cause the surge or "lope"...

I have that black to grayish smoke - no white. And that raspy popping sound in the video. 

 

I thought about pulling injectors (6×18) and having my friend at Northeast Diesel check them out. Again the down time but alot less than vp44 testing.

 

Dont know what to do and I'm really confused on the lope and grey smoke. Especially since I'm dealing with bigger (go fast) parts. Different than all the stuff I do at John Deere 🤪

 

[Mopar1973Man]

I just seen a injector Crack on 94 Cummins in less 2k. It was a VCO even.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Stanley]

Well good news that's bad news. I got to doing ALOT of research and was finding info on people putting keyway in backwards. I have no idea how that would affect timing but.....

All the keyway stuff I've ever messed with personally and at John Deere position didn't matter. 

So I stayed late at work got down to the keyway and borrowed my buddies bore scope. Sure as **** mine is in backwards, arrow out towards cover. So I am seriously hoping this clears everything up that I been dealing with. Gonna swap the key around tomorrow or this weekend. Gonna get an extra key just in case (044)...

 

Can someone school me on how this positioning affects timing? 

 

Also now that I know ideally don't want to drive it like this but I prolly will have too, think I'll be ok???

[Stanley]

@Mopar1973Man

Sounds like my issue.... ^^

 

Then I found this.... kinda my situation to an extent.

[Silverwolf2691]

I think the key helps set the static timing. 

 

From here: https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/vp44-woodruff-key-identification.365023/ post 11 says that a degree is an adjustment  of .0087 in a 1 inch shaft.

 

Depending on how fine they are trying to get a vp44, you might not even be able to feel a difference. (your hair is about .003-.004 thick) But I cant imagine a degree being enough to throw the timing off enough to throw white smoke. Unless the computer is getting way out of whack trying to put the timing in the correct position based on what info its getting, either timing or fueling or something.. 

 

My thoughts on it, don't know how right it is.   

 

[Mopar1973Man]

This is why the pumps are place on a calibration test stand. It to find the proper timing and tell the rebuilder what key to use. The VP44 will attempt to reach the set timing amount by either advancing or retarding. 

[Stanley]

Well I pulled vp44 out and put new key in same number and facing correct way! 

Driving back home from the shop it didn't change the white/grey smoke any... still has that raspy popping from exhaust, could be tip or timing again or something else idk. So same stuff different day...

 

For some weird reason it seems to maybe run "smoother" but it could be my brain trying to make my problem seem a little less worse...

 

So I'm at a loss again... I had such high hopes of this fix ☹

 

Help me(sad voice)!

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Stanley

[Great work!]

Have you tried cracking loose the injection lines one at a time? Is it one cylinder or all of them causing the smoke.

[Stanley]

I mean I have bled 1,3 & 4 like I have always done after any fuel repairs, starts up and run good. Drove home today after the key redo. Has power and will "get up and go" but not like it used to. It's not a turd*or gutless to an extent* but not as it should be doing for what it is...

I barely get black smoke mostly grey/white. 

 

*what's hard to figure out is that this is a (was told) dragon flow vp and 6x18 Injectors* (no 100% verification-other than how it acts and drives)=lots of fuel and smoke.

So it's hard to decifer that.

 

I thought about measuring temps at each exhaust port and comparing? 

 

I found a P0234 code for overboost idk if it's active or stored or how old?- used the key flip -a- roo.

For reference, I can peg a 60psi boost gauge...

 

I however have the waste gate set at 40 psi I forget why I did it when I done the big teardown 

 

Also note worthy if no one knew, there is no fueling/timing box period just pump and injectors.

 

So am I missing/overlooking anything? 

I'm stumped right now and don't wanna chunk money at it till it's narrowed down. 

Here is the pump info, took pic today. Idk who built this? Any insight on who it could be. 028DF is not listed on it...

[Stanley]

Well went and deleted codes today. This is my p0234 code with values then me messing around with the live data stuff. 

 

Map pressure didn't change however no load...

 

Think about throwing a map sensor in it and a iat sensor also. Cause idk what else to do...

 

Gonna also run an over head this weekend just to check. I'll have to order the sensors though...

 

After that or sooner I'm gonna pull injectors and have them popped and checked over. 

 

Edit: 

I forgot to ask about grid heater and all encompassed with it. Nothing is connected its just removed/gone. I'll take a picture if needed. I have both grid heater codes going on, I think p0380 and p0382? Is this of any concern?

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Stanley

[IBMobile]

At 800RPM, 0mph live data shows MAP being 14.28PSI    59inhg-29.92inhg  = 14.28psi   

                                                                                                  2.036inhg/1psi     

It should be closer to 30inhg or 0psi.   looks like the MAP sensor is reading high.    

 At 75inhg boost is 22.1psi                                                                        

[Stanley]

2 hours ago, IBMobile said:

It should be closer to 30inhg or 0psi.   looks like the MAP sensor is reading high.    

 At 75inhg boost is 22.1psi 

Yup, MAP sensor will be ordered shortly. Gonna go ahead and get a IAT sensor too. 

 

22 psi - Heck, should have been higher 30-40 ish lol. 

 

Think the new MAP sensor would affect any of the stuff I got going on? Timing etc?

[LorenS]

I think Mike once told me the MAP sensor maxes out at that 22ish PSIG.