Angry & can't do it anymore, serious iQuad timing issues

[LorenS]

DAP lists 6x.013 injectors as "325 HP".

(325+235)/235 = 2.38.  Your injectors supposedly inject 2.38 times as much fuel as injectors normally used with that SO injection pump.

 

The reciprocal of 2.38 is about .42, so I would try lowering your canbus, not raising it. Maybe to 50 or 60%. See if it helps.

 

Your HO engine has higher compression than a SO engine, so it may not need more timing. The extra heat of compression should help your fuel light off.

 

And if the injector pop-off is low, that is essentially adding timing.

 

I have no experience with any of this, so take the following with a massive grain of salt:

Since putting in smaller injectors economically isn't an option, I'd back things down and work up if it was my truck.

[Stanley]

I was totally on the same track as you this morning, however this afternoon Im thinking otherwise. Isn't 70% the lowest canbus setting; Or the lowest usable percentage? 

 

As I mentioned earlier, thinking outside the box, since it has practically fell on its face with the fuel drop and timing jump; maybe adding fuel to aid in spool will help. As one would think take fuel out to lower it all, I did and not much changed so maybe go the other way...? 

I'll try any and all advice, I won't bat an eye at any of it, just more discussion at the round table might produce some interesting results.

[Me78569]

with 6 x .013's it should be fine at %70.  how does the default tune run?   how does it run on lvl 0 for egt's  ?

[Stanley]

iQuad-2022-03-30-06.33.45-282608138.csviQuad-2022-03-30-06.14.16951267786.csv 

 

Heres 2 data logs from this morning, export messed up again so idk what is what but one should be a med-heavy take off and one is cruising hwy. Pic is cruising with the 15, 19, 25, 28, 30 and canbus fuel starting at 90% and up by 1% from there. Seemed a little better than before but still doggy and if I touched the pedal 1200+ super quick to jump up on egts. 

 

Its been a min since I tried the stock settings or default tune. Ill have to try those real quick after work, but im not holding my breath lol. 

[Me78569]

your injectors and that tune should go like a bat out of hell.   

 

the minor tune change really shouldn't make a difference here

 

 

run level 0 and dfault tune and we will go from there.   

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm starting to think the turbo is too big. Being the fuel curve is totally controlled by boost and if boost is not building fast then the fuel map will not rise up to add more fuel. With all that fuel 2.38 times over stock yeah 70% to 80% should be fine too. Even stock (Lvl 0) is going to run hot being the turbo still isn't spooling in a timely manner. Being your already up to 15 degrees and stepping up from there it should have enough timing just there is no boost to back it up. Kind of like a boost leak EGT's would rise pretty sharply for those injectors, just the turbo is late to the party. 

 

Twins possibly? Smaller turbo maybe? 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Me78569]

@Mopar1973Man nah I dont think that is the case here, 4.10's + 6 x .013's that turbo should spool without struggle and it should have a ton of power.

 

 

even with my 351ve housing set to 26 cm^2 ( AKA wouldn't spool)  I could not get egt's to get out of control with the 7 x .012's.     something else is up in my opinion.

[Mopar1973Man]

Same here when my HX35/40 Hybrid gave up and started rubbing, I had less than 15 PSI at WOT and ZERO PSI at 75 MPH. EGT's were actually lower than normal which was weird cruisung at 65 MPH was about 450*F with that failing turbo. Most likely because of lack of boost the fuel was not being given. I pull the Hybrid turbo off and threw the stock HX35W back on and boost is back and EGT's are back to normal. 

 

As for his case with 6 x 0.013 are pretty big injectors.

 

I know the injectors have been sent back multiple times. Pretty sure its not injectors. 

 

Pretty sure the Quadzilla is working correctly. Even on Lvl 0 the EGT's are going to be high so this removes Quadzilla from the list of problems. 

 

I know the valve lash has been done several times.

 

The only thing I can think of is turbo... 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Silverwolf2691]

@Me78569, when you built your 7x.012 tune how fast did you ramp canbus fuel? 

 

@Stanley's tune only goes up by 1% per psi starting at 90%.. I think that might be killing some of the power/fuel needed to spool the turbo.. Hmm.. on second thought.. maybe not as much as I thought..

 

When I was originally trying to figure out what turbo I was gonna get, @dieselautopower mentioned that the 64.5/73.4/12 would start spooling around 2000 rpm, and the 62/68/14 would start at 1600. Well he is spot on on the rpm for the 62/68/14 that I bought.. Looking at the data logs, 2000-2200 is right where the boost rises quick for stanleys truck.. I think its a case of runaway EGTs.. Boost cant build soon enough to cool things down.. 

[Me78569]

the highest egt I see in the 0 to 80 mph pull is like 1300*,  that's not exactly hot.    I do notice that boost is really not coming up until ~2800+ rpm.  in low gears and ~2400 once up to 60 mph.   

 

 

 

 

 

is this turbo wastegated?   either you have a very serious boost leak or your turbo is not doing what it should be.    I'd be checking to ensure the waste gate is not blowing open right away.

2 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

@Me78569, when you built your 7x.012 tune how fast did you ramp canbus fuel? 

 

I think %2 per psi until 10 psi then %5 if I remember right.   

 

however even if he never increased fueling % from %70 6  .013's flow enough fuel to make that turbo light.      I would like to see a stock tune log and a level 0 run to compare.  

[Stanley]

5 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

is this turbo wastegated?   either you have a very serious boost leak or your turbo is not doing what it should be.    I'd be checking to ensure the waste gate is not blowing open right away.

It is wastegated, how ever I when I re-built the turbo and installed the steel braided line from DAP I had interference problems with the rod. I adjusted what I could but dont think its how it should be... I dont know if it was on her or talking with moparman, but I wanted to pull the wastegate off and put a different setup on or something IDK advice?? 

Ill re-check for any boost leaks with my system pressurizer I built... 

41 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Twins possibly? Smaller turbo maybe? 

I REALLY want too!!! But $$$

 

on the heavy pull, probably already realize it, but I really didnt get into it per say... 

 

 

Think my rebuilt turbo is going kaputts? Or wastegate is being stupid lol... I guess if its stuck open a bit then everything down low wont see any air really... 

 

So need advice on wastegate delete.... 

[Me78569]

if your waste gate is not adjusted right this would cause %100 of your issues.   

 

I don't know how the wastegate of your turbo works, but you should be able to figure out if it is being held open.  that's my guess.

[Mopar1973Man]

Not to make bad feeling this is why I step up through the power little at a time to resolve issues as I'm stepping up. Every time I see someone building for a high HP goal it typically falls apart and parts don't work out. I think thats why we all post up what we have and the results.

[Stanley]

5 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Not to make bad feeling this is why I step up through the power little at a time to resolve issues as I'm stepping up.

I completely understand, but this is only for me trying to find out a daily tune that it fuel and egt friendly. After that is confirmed then I can adjust and make a fun play tune. * If I'm understanding correctly what your meaning? Lol, either or constructive criticism is good in any aspect of learning  

Just for informational purposes, here's pics before I cleaned up and rebuilt turbo and install the dap drain line; to get an idea of what have while we consider wastegate being a culprit.

 

If there's a different option, I'm in! 

[Me78569]

So does the drain line make contact with the wastegaste rod?  if you apply inlet pressure to the wastegate solenoid does the rod move?  if so at what PSI does it start to move? when you remove inlet pressure does it close?   if you remove the rod does the wastegate lever move back and forth open and closed?   

[Stanley]

Before I put it back on I tested all that and it did work. Now with it on the truck and all hooked up, I checked it all again maybe 2 months ago and it did move back and forth. I tried to set it to open at 40 the first time then 50 the second time just as a starting point. The rod in my opinion (never really like it to begin with) didn't move like it should do to the clearance issue with it attached to the  actuator, with it unhooked yes it moves freely, if anything problems would be actuator or the rod clearance I believe. I will add to list for today to recheck movement and psi, maybe Ill try a video...

[Me78569]

If it was me I would disconnect the wastegate rod, wire it shut and then see how it goes.  

[Stanley]

Thats not a bad idea. just dont get crazy with it haha...

I have never wired one shut, might be self explanatory but I assume just wrap from wire around the shaft some how and tie it off to something close by...Something on the engine.

[Stanley]

Well, I have to look like a jack a$$, eat crow, so the walk of shame......

Pulled truck in the shop before leaving leaving work, going to wire the WG shut. WG rod was hanging there! 

Broke or unthreaded... I just wired it shut so I could get home. Shook my head the whole way home.... I wouldn't say it's been like that the whole time, and honestly hard to really catch in the scheme of things. I'm glad it was mentioned and caught. That rod was just dragging on the oil drain  no way I could go that route again so options needed. Best idea I could think of was WG rotated inside its housing along with vibrating on the drain and came loose? Idk, here nor there, this is where I'm at...

 

Here's driving home, 90% +1%, same timing and all. 

 

This is from the gas station home, on ramp to interstate, short flat area, long down hill and up hill, then I goosed it a bit on the back road home. It was raining pretty good too so that didn't help.

iQuad-2022-03-30-05.46.471650855078.csv

 

Still not the best but better than what I had. I believe there's room for improvement here. I only hit 35 psi on the little side road romp, kinda low I'd say...

 

So feeling like a jack wagon I have to ask where do I go from here? 

 

-New WG idea

-timing and other influential

-cheap twins, New turbo 

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, Stanley said:

where do I go from here? 

DAP +150 injectors set to 325 BAR and either an HX35/40 hybrid or the HE351W (around $550 with shipping) since you have the band clamp style downpipe already. 

https://www.benzforce.com/collections/holset-he351-parts/products/new-genuine-holset-he351w-4043980-4043982-he351

 

With Mike's 28 MPG tune, it should pay for itself in little time.