First drive with VP 44 project

[wil440]

1 hour ago, Great work! said:

The Duetch ECM connector is not available in a wire friendly format

Have you looked at what Cat has available

[JAG1]

37 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Basically comes down to @Great work! ability to make the software rich enough to allow easy reprogramming of the timing and fuel tables.

isn't there a timing that would work for all fueling as in an emergency run down the road or even using for all time if todays world becomes obsolete?

[Great work!]

@JAG1 the vp is not like a 1st gen VE or P pump. There is no mechanical connection to a helix or valve that is synchronized to the shaft rotation. The injection solenoid doesn't just intervene and modify a mechanical process.  So no there is no simple way to make it work. You would not be able to start and end an injection event. I suppose the timing piston could be gutted in a way and a threaded shaft could be rigged to set timing advance to a fixed number like 15 degrees like the 12 valve, but it still won't run.

[Max Tune]

I have absolutely no idea what W-T and great work are talking about, but I'm absolutely fascinated reading the conversation between the two. Don't know why, but I am.

[JAG1]

53 minutes ago, Great work! said:

@JAG1 the vp is not like a 1st gen VE or P pump. There is no mechanical connection to a helix or valve that is synchronized to the shaft rotation. The injection solenoid doesn't just intervene and modify a mechanical process.  So no there is no simple way to make it work. You would not be able to start and end an injection event. I suppose the timing piston could be gutted in a way and a threaded shaft could be rigged to set timing advance to a fixed number like 15 degrees like the 12 valve, but it still won't run.

Thank you Great work for what your doing. The more I hear about this electronic world, so connected, the more I think I prefer to be electronically disconnected ! A lot of you will heartily disagree and that's okay too.

[Mopar1973Man]

@JAG1

 

Yes and no. 

 

Yes I love the electronics because there is more precise timing and fuel control over the old mechanical pumps. Even the P7100 pump has no timing advancement at all, which is a static timed pump which is the part why no. Electronics make diagnosing easier being the ECM/PCM provide clues to what has gone wrong. When mechanical system like the 12V you on your own to figure out why your truck doesn't start so now you have to test everything because there is no help from a computer. This is one of the reason I fell in love with the Cummins over my 1972 Dodge I own before. No computers and diagnosing weird ignition issues some times you would miss the actually problem, in one case I had a burned hole through the rotor which you couldn't see. Black plastic...

 

Just keep in mind when there is a error code present typically its going to be electrical in nature typically. There is a few like the P0216 code which is design to measure how long the pump took to advance or retard timing if it can't do it in a small slice of time then the code is thrown. So imagine if you didn't have the electronics and the timing piston froze up in full retard and white smoke was heavy would you know its the VP44, bad injector, etc.? How about if the timing piston froze full advanced and was difficult to start and knocked really loud and very low power would you know the VP44 had a bad timing piston? Most likely not... So electronics are a good thing...

Edited July 10, 2022 by Mopar1973Man

[Tractorman]

12 hours ago, JAG1 said:

The more I hear about this electronic world, so connected, the more I think I prefer to be electronically disconnected ! A lot of you will heartily disagree and that's okay too.

 

Oh boy, see what you started? 

 

Personally, I believe that computer controlled fueling for diesel engines is far superior in performance than mechanically controlled fueling, especially when it comes to tuning.  However, I am very glad that my truck is not laden with computer controlled items like engine fan, or power windows / door locks, or a TIPM (3rd and later generation), headlights, 4WD, and so forth.  For example, because my power windows are not computer controlled, I was easily able to rewire the control switch to operate the windows without the ignition switch being turned on.  Very useful and simple modification.

 

I think that one of the reasons I like my VP44 fueled truck is because of good performance, good reliability, and a reasonable cost for replacement parts - especially the injection pump when compared to just injectors on a fully computerized common rail fuel system.

 

I find I am easily able to diagnose non computerized electrical problems with the use of an electrical diagram and a test light / digital multimeter without the use of diagnostic error codes.

 

- John

[JAG1]

You are correct @Mopar1973Man, I agree, I was wrong concerning our 2nd gens trucks that have afforded so much to us all.

Thank you for you great post above.

[Great work!]

19 hours ago, wil440 said:

Have you looked at what Cat has available

No, I have not done that much research. 

 

I have a 12 valve motor and a p pump in the shed. Believe me the temptation to thrown one on was there. This project had a lot of set backs.

 

This is an experimental vp sensor I carved from wood. LOL. It has a magnet in it too. I didn't work as required. I know why now. The modern sensors have more integrated stuff in them not plain like the original sensor .

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Tractorman said:

I am very glad that my truck is not laden with computer controlled items like engine fan, or power windows / door locks, or a TIPM (3rd and later generation), headlights, 4WD, and so forth.  For example, because my power windows are not computer controlled, I was easily able to rewire the control switch to operate the windows without the ignition switch being turned on.  Very useful and simple modification.

 

One of the few reason I'm not fond of the 2003 and newer trucks I've seen everything from A/C that are from the TIPM, turn signals and headlight issues from TIPM, wiring is way different on the 3rd Gens on up. More difficult to diagnose electrical issues being its not +12V signals like older generations. It all digital signal that controls the truck. Just an example there is like 10 wires on the turn signal switch for wipers, turn signal, washer pump, etc. On 3rd Gens there is only 5 wires and done all digitally. 

[wil440]

1 hour ago, Great work! said:

 

I have a 12 valve motor and a p pump in the shed. Believe me the temptation to thrown one on was there. This project had a lot of set backs.

I can fully understand where you're coming from especially if you have a 12v "in the shed"  I'm very tempted to buy a non dodge 12v or even better a Man or Daf 4x4 truck that has a 5.9 and build a overland camper