NV450 5speed blew at 184k miles.

[Doubletrouble]

 Absolutely,  so far it doesn't seem to be real difficult. 

[wil440]

Looking good, on oil IF I had a manual trans it would get Cat TDTO50W  as in Tranmission,Drive,Train,Oil  50Weight   good enough for some really serious heavy mobile plant.....  THEN use Cat SOS oil sampling to let them say when it needs to be changed but then again I use SOS kits all the time as no oils now are changed except engine oil until the oil fails a lab check, saves mobile plant operators millions of squids

[Mopar1973Man]

At least for the 50 weight I'm running I've noticed the Mobil 50 darkens way quicker than the Valvoline 50 weight I'm using right now. Seriously though I think people are holding tight to the thin lubes like the 75w-85 on the 5-speed and PennzOil Syncromesh which is TOO THIN to make the GL-4 grade. Then when you are adding horsepower you need to thicken the lubes in the axles and transmission to prevent damage to the hard facing of the gears. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Mopar1973Man

[wil440]

3 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

At least for the 50 weight I'm running I've noticed the Mobil 50 darkens way quicker than the Valvoline 50 weight I'm using right now. 

To be fair the Cat TDTO  is dark anyway, I'm considering using it in my axles as it's good enough for 100 ton dump trucks and I have plenty of Cat Friction modifier to stop the chatter, my diffs are 85/90 right now with Friction modifier but TDTO50W I think would be better as it's a bit thinner but very high shear if that's the right word..

[Mopar1973Man]

Interesting. I've not seen CAT TDTO fluids around here but I guess I should look around. 

[Great work!]

If i remember correctly the main shaft barely fits through the opening and it helps to have the input gear out and one of the front gears goes on once the main shaft is partly installed, very tricky.

 

Then there's a roll pin that you should get started into the reverse shift fork before placing it back in the case and tapped into place in the shift rail later with a long punch. Also very tricky. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Great work!
Clairty

[Doubletrouble]

Well she is starting to look like something.  I've got the mainshaft installed, 5th gear syncro installed. Got held up since I don't have any hi-temp red lactate. I'll pick some up tomorrow. I'll need that to install the 5th gear nut. Then put the side pto covers back on and add some oil. Lol kind of shift through the gears on the bench before I put it back under the truck. Trying to double check everything since this is my first manual rebuild. Fingers crossed!

 

[Royal Squire]

Curious how much $ you will have in this rebuild?

[Doubletrouble]

9 hours ago, Royal Squire said:

Curious how much $ you will have in this rebuild?

 When I'm completely finished I will give a cost breakdown. I had to buy a few tools to do it so I figured that in as well. 

[Doubletrouble]

 Got some more work done. This has been a long process but there were outside forces slowing me down.

 I finished the build on the trans, installed the 5th gear and special locking nut with plenty of red loctite as well. Installed the new cast iron tail housing then painted the case.

 

 Then installed the new flywheel, disk and pressure plate.

 

 Top is back on the trans, a light coating of grease on the input shaft and housing to ease the install through the throwout bearing, disk and pilot bearing. 

 She is ready to install. I have help coming Saturday morning to assist the install. Fingers crossed she'll be back on the road tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Mopar1973Man]

 

OMG! Come on now @Doubletrouble you put that nasty dirty lid back on? 

 

The rest of it looks awesome... Really clean assembly inside and looks great. I'll send you my transmission for you to rebuild. 

[Doubletrouble]

 Well, truck is back together. Unfortunately it will have to come apart again. When put into 1st gear it immediately pops out of gear as the clutch is released.  All other gears seem to be just fine. I have to admit I was severely disappointed when I discovered this. I've put some good time and effort into this in the midst of other things in life I've had to handle lately. 

 Plan is to run it as is until spring/summer and pull the trans back out and investigate. 

[Tractorman]

45 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

When put into 1st gear it immediately pops out of gear as the clutch is released.  All other gears seem to be just fine. I have to admit I was severely disappointed when I discovered this

 

I can only imagine how you feel.  I am sure you have thought a lot about what could be causing this - any ideas at this point?  Any possibility that it could be something external (just being hopeful)?  Does the shifter feel like it is making its full travel going into first gear?

 

- John

[Doubletrouble]

@Tractorman,

 I have been racking my brain thinking of what could have been wrong. I have found the problem! In reviewing pictures of my build and comparing them to other pictures online I noticed I have installed a synchronizer ring facing the wrong way. 

 On one side it has a bevel or a slope to it, on the other it is more of an "L" shape which would enable it to recess below the teeth of the gear next to it up against the gear face.

 Below are pics that I have circled the shift ring that is backwards.

 

This is my install....incorrect

 

 

Now the proper way below 

 

 

 If you look closely at the syncro ring you'll notice the sides are different. With the sloped side against 1st gear it won't allow the ring to travel enough to fully engage the 1st gear syncros.

 With it flipped to the proper orientation the ring will be able to recess up against the face of the gear and fully engage the 1st gear sycros.

 I hope I explained that all in a way you can see it. Sometimes my explanations can be clear as mud.

 Lesson learned here. I will run it as is until warmer weather returns. It will be an easy fix once the trans is back out.

[Tractorman]

Your explanation along with the photo is clear.  I am glad that you figured it out.  You will be in a much better frame of mind when it comes time for the repair.

 

- John

[Mopar1973Man]

@Doubletrouble called me the other night about this and I was going over the 1st gear popping out in my head and I knew it was like main shaft bearings because it would do it in most gears depending on direction. I was thinking about it and the only thing I could say to @Doubletrouble something was flipped, something came loose like a snap ring but even after thinking of the direction of movement the snap ring idea would have failed. I'm glad he got it figured out and it fixable but man I know it sucks to pull the entire mess down again and just flip a shift collar. 

[Great work!]

I repaired one a few years back and almost made the same mistake. I had to really stare at that part to figure it out.

 

[Doubletrouble]

 At least you caught it before you finished and installed it. Lol

 It's frustrating but if that's the worst thing that I did I'm in good shape. Just gonna cost me more labor to make it right is all.

[Doubletrouble]

 I finally have time to put together a price list of what i bought to do this job. Sorry it took so long...... @Royal Squire

 

 Allstate gear:

counter shaft Part # NV22657                   $174.25

input shaft Part # NV25356                       $62.50

master rebuild kit Part # NV4500-KITA     $379.80

                                              shipping      $55.28

                                                 total         $671.83

 

 

Transmission Parts Distributors:

cast iron tailhousing Part # 334770A        $125.77

 

 

 Thoroughbred Diesel:

South Bend Clutch Part # 13125-OK-HD   $962.40

 

 

Amazon:

NV4500 input shaft bearing retainer         $39.95

5th gear nut wrench                                  $15.50

Fel-Pro 40650 rear main seal kit                $32.90

 

 

 Other various expenses totaling                $146.00 

 

              Grand Total                                   $1994.35

 

 the other various expenses were a few tools needed and the 1 Gallon of oil for the transmission.

 

Edited January 2 by Doubletrouble

[Tractorman]

That's a nicely detailed list.  You have to feel good completing that job.  That transmission and clutch combination will be enjoyable to drive and should take you lots of places trouble free.

 

- John