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Well things just went from interesting to much worse... Raptor died, VP as well.


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Well, finally got the truck running back normal again and was going to take it out in the countryside to some property I have with a friend about 75 miles away from everything.

Got the truck loaded up and ready to go and as the fuel pressure was just a few pounds low recently thought I would adjust it up a bit and did so in the driveway before leaving. It always runs a good 16-17 psi at idle, and down to a low of 12-13 at WOT. Steady running at 14-15 psi which is fine with me.

Got on the road and headed out in the boonies early this morning. About 15 miles out noticed that the fuel pressure was down again, sometimes even hitting 10 or less, which then triggered the alarm on the Edge. Stopped on the side of the road and adjusted the fuel pressure on the Raptor back up to 18-20. Drove another 3-4 miles and it started doing it again.

Now I am not one to do silly things like pee on electric fences and the like, so when something like this happens three times in a row, its time to take a hard look at whats going on and make a decision. Yep, I headed back into town because where I was is in the middle of absolute no-where and tow trucks are a long ways away.

Good choice as within 5 miles the fuel pressure was not only below 10, it was down to 3-4 psi at times. Another couple of miles and it was at ZERO... was on the hiway by then going 50 in the slow lane with my flashers on. Made it to the turn-off and truck was then bucking from time to time. Idle speed and sound was fine but sure was down on power. You could tell that the engine was not happy.

Last turn onto the main road to my house and I was down to 2-3 cylinders and not sure I would make it, but Mr. Cummins builds a strong engine and we chugged to the house like this. Smelled some difficult smells coming from the engine compartment and guessing that the VP was not happy with no cooling fuel and has signaled that its time that I learn how to change a VP.

Anyone ever had anything like this happen? The Raptor 100 is less than two years old and until this time been very reliable. I have a call into PF/Raptor support but no return call yet... Any suggestions on which VP to get and sources? I am looking for a good price but would rather have one with a new or upgraded circuit board on the pump if possible.

Thx, Joe

--- Update to the previous post...

Well, its been a difficult and wasted morning for the most part.

Called Pure Flow to get raptor support and they told me that I had to call their Indiana facility. Called there and was shuttled to someone's number and it went direct to voice mail. Left my number and 2.5 hours Kyle finally calls me back.

What a JERK! I had bought this Raptor 100 in October of 2009 from Vulcan Performance. First pump I received was dead out of the box so I called Vulcan and they shuttled me to PF who was at that time still producing product in Missouri. They took a week to get me a new replacement pump as they did not any gears left to make new pumps... Finally when they got a new one made they shipped it overnight on their nickle and its been running fine since that time. Evidently now production has shifted to Indiana and if you have a newer model product you have to go there. Older stuff are still supported by the Missouri office... thank God.

Well, Kyle could care less about customer service but sure wanted to know the pump number and if I had sent the warranty card in, which I had done. Well he could not find the warranty info in his computer then told me "you must have bought this before Nov/Dec of 2009" so while I have 98% of all listings from this time frame, if you are not in my computer you get NO warranty!" I guess customers from anytime before fall of 2009 are worthless to him, or he sure treats them like this!

Hmm, thats a good way to ____ a customer off! Now we are responsible for the Post Office getting the warranty cards to them as well I guess! That 2% of the PF customers that he mentions is not in his computer just gets to pound sand from the way he acts.

I called the Pure Flow office in Missouri back and talked with Diane, who found my info in her computer right away. No questions asked, she was wonderful to work with and I have either a 6 year or unlimited warranty, depending on something. I could care less what it is, I bought the pump about 2.5 years ago so its well within both time periods and covered. She has a replacement pump coming out to me this afternoon and will change it next week once it arrives.

Now for the next bit of good news. The system threw a Po216 code on the way home, but considering that the Edge was showing ZERO fuel pressure thats not surprising. Anyone feel that after I put a new raptor in the system that the VP is going to be worth a damm or reliable enough to trust on the road?

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Thats odd, I had my Airdog 165 II motor poop out on me a year into owning it and I discussed it over with Kyle. I guess I had favor with him because I had my warranty card in. He had it ground shipped to me for free.It seems like the consesus was that Kyle was a good man to deal with. I can't really say what may have been up his arse that day.As for your deal goes, IMO going with a raptor is like a band-aid on a gunshot wound. Its still wide-open and can bleed like a stuck-pig.I personally would go with either a FASS or AD100(at the least) next chance you get. You need more than just the ability to move the fuel. You need the preperation that these systems provide. If its one thing I learned about diesels, the fuel is like the blood for the body.As far as the VP goes, get the raptor back on and see if she runs. Performs like it should have before the pump went out and if it continues to throw codes.When I first got my truck, I did not know squat about the need fore fuel psi. The guy before me put gauges in and had an aftermarket pump, but anything but idle and the gauge always read ZERO. I drove like this for about 6 months before learning I needed to do something about it. Here I'am still on that same VP with no problems. I may have suffered performance wise, but I do not know any different unless I ride in someone elses rig or vice versa.

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I sent my warranty card in as well, and had factory invoices and such to prove it that they sent it to me directly from the factory and yet he could care less. He even admitted that he did not have all of the customers info or warranty cards on his computer, but if you are not on his computer, it does not matter if the customer has sent the warranty card in or not, you have no warranty from him. Diane found my info immediately and bent over backwards to help. Why is it that she can find my info on her computer (and they are the headquarters of PF) and Kyle cannot? Do not know but he sure did not help PF's customer service one bit this morning.I am much like you, a novice at diesel but am an aircraft mechanic so understand things like direct injection and so on. We do not have the fuel pressure issues that the VP does. That said, I had no gauges and the stock pump when I got the truck. Got on this board and they impressed upon me the value of at least a fuel pressure gauge and found an Edge that had everything. Then and only then did I find out that I had been driving around with 4-5 psi fuel pressure, so was living on borrowed time in the VP world. The raptor brought the pressure and volumne up where it was needed, especially when I put the drawstraw and big lines all the way to the VP. I do not race and its a stock engine, so not worried about flowing 300 gph on the puppy, just want it to run reliably. You mention that I need an AD100 (at the least)... thats the unit I have on the truck right now and for the last 2.5 years that died this morning. This is the AirDog Raptor 100.

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You can get the same flow from the raptor as the AD. They both come in 100 gph and 150 gph. I think they are the same pump. The AD comes with the filters, water and air seperation. The ADDII 165 are great pumps,I have one too, but way over kill. They are good for way more than Ill ever have. I think they will support 500+hp.

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This is what I recommend:

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/airdogII.php The model that flows atleast 100gph.

This is what I assume you have:

http://www.pureflowairdog.com/raptor.php

Thanks for the recommendation.

When you are ready to help with the cost, please let me know, otherwise I cannot afford something like to run on a pretty much stock truck.

--- Update to the previous post...

You can get the same flow from the raptor as the AD. They both come in 100 gph and 150 gph. I think they are the same pump. The AD comes with the filters, water and air seperation. The ADDII 165 are great pumps,I have one too, but way over kill. They are good for way more than Ill ever have. I think they will support 500+hp.

Thanks and this is exactly what everyone told me before I bought this 2.5 years ago. At that time the FASS system was having pumps die right and left and their warranty returns were out of sight, and I had two dealers tell me to get the Raptor 100 if you could not afford the model with the filters.

As you mention, they are over-kill for what I am doing, a stock engine, stock injectors and stock VP44 pump. I do not race, rarely tow and will never get near 500+ hp, so why spend the extra $$ that I do not have?

This pump worked fine for 2.5 years but the thing that has me perturbed now is I had little warning of its total failure, and had I been in the back country or out on the road, I would now be stranded, still sitting there waiting for help.

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Thanks for the recommendation.

When you are ready to help with the cost, please let me know, otherwise I cannot afford something like to run on a pretty much stock truck.

--- Update to the previous post...

Thanks and this is exactly what everyone told me before I bought this 2.5 years ago. At that time the FASS system was having pumps die right and left and their warranty returns were out of sight, and I had two dealers tell me to get the Raptor 100 if you could not afford the model with the filters.

As you mention, they are over-kill for what I am doing, a stock engine, stock injectors and stock VP44 pump. I do not race, rarely tow and will never get near 500+ hp, so why spend the extra $$ that I do not have?

This pump worked fine for 2.5 years but the thing that has me perturbed now is I had little warning of its total failure, and had I been in the back country or out on the road, I would now be stranded, still sitting there waiting for help.

I pretty much have a stock truck as well. I make maybe around 300hp. What I recommended you was not something that was overkill. I personally own a AD2 165. I did not recommend a 165 to you. I recommended a 100gph series.

Like I told you, the fuel is the life of the truck. I recommended the AD2 100 because it has the filters that are needed to make the fuel like it should be for the vp. Go ahead and do your raptor pump. There is no harm in discussing this. I feel that the raptor pump is inadequate for the fuel system though.

Dodge really screwed the pooch when it came to this. If you are going to continue to run the raptor pump, invest in a filter block so you can run an Air/water seperator and an extra filter.

If you think about it, running just the raptor is going to take a toll on your vp over time. It may not fail in a year, or a decade, but I guarantee it will someday. The raptor itself allows the air, water and debris to run through the vp. I would much rather run a setup that needs an occassional filter change than run without and spend a $1k a pop on a vp. Cutting corners costs money.

If you have to spend the money on a new vp, you'll be in the hole. The AD2 100 at most would cost $600. You could have saved yourself $400 right there.

When my pump went out, I noticed that the pump did not prime. The fuse blew, and I tried to replace the fuse. Worked for about 10 seconds than blew again. Had it towed home, and it turns out the seals to the motor went out. Diesel fuel got into the pump and ruined it. Came out of nowhere...

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Like even my own rig I've got a old school AirDog 150 pump on my truck but I never got a warranty card so I'm screwed any ways. :rolleyes: But I've got about 6-7 years now with my AirDog 150 I'm also still running the stock filter as well because of the fuel heater and my minus temp weather I get in Idaho. But even on you setup Raptors will fail out and drop pressure just from a air leak. So if you got a weak connection or loose fitting the air leak could create a problem just like what happen. As for fuel pressure your see way too much change from idle to WOT... Typically normal is 2-3 PSI fall period beyond that you got line restrictions, plugged filters, air leaks, or failing pump. Like my truck I idle at 19 PSI and WOT stompped I can go clean up to 85 MPH, 35 PSI of Boost and still be looking at 17 PSI...

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I pretty much have a stock truck as well. I make maybe around 300hp. What I recommended you was not something that was overkill. I personally own a AD2 165. I did not recommend a 165 to you. I recommended a 100gph series.

Like I told you, the fuel is the life of the truck. I recommended the AD2 100 because it has the filters that are needed to make the fuel like it should be for the vp. Go ahead and do your raptor pump. There is no harm in discussing this. I feel that the raptor pump is inadequate for the fuel system though.

Dodge really screwed the pooch when it came to this. If you are going to continue to run the raptor pump, invest in a filter block so you can run an Air/water seperator and an extra filter.

If you think about it, running just the raptor is going to take a toll on your vp over time. It may not fail in a year, or a decade, but I guarantee it will someday. The raptor itself allows the air, water and debris to run through the vp. I would much rather run a setup that needs an occassional filter change than run without and spend a $1k a pop on a vp. Cutting corners costs money.

If you have to spend the money on a new vp, you'll be in the hole. The AD2 100 at most would cost $600. You could have saved yourself $400 right there.

When my pump went out, I noticed that the pump did not prime. The fuse blew, and I tried to replace the fuse. Worked for about 10 seconds than blew again. Had it towed home, and it turns out the seals to the motor went out. Diesel fuel got into the pump and ruined it. Came out of nowhere...

If the raptor is plumbed thru the oe fuel filter cansister, like it should be, you have water seperation and filtration. I agree it is not near as good a having the full fledge AD, but if you cant afford another pump what do you do. The Raptor will supply sufficient fuel just like the AD100, I think it is the same pump.

I am not trying knock your recomendation, I have recomended the same thing to others as well and will continue too. As far as the ADII 165, I love it and am glad I bought it. When I bought i had the cash to spend.

To FlatTwin, The thing that really might cost you the pump is driving it home with no pressure. That might have cost you alot of money. Put the new pump and see what happens. you might get lucky:pray:

--- Update to the previous post...

Like even my own rig I've got a old school AirDog 150 pump on my truck but I never got a warranty card so I'm screwed any ways. :rolleyes: But I've got about 6-7 years now with my AirDog 150 I'm also still running the stock filter as well because of the fuel heater and my minus temp weather I get in Idaho.

But even on you setup Raptors will fail out and drop pressure just from a air leak. So if you got a weak connection or loose fitting the air leak could create a problem just like what happen.

As for fuel pressure your see way too much change from idle to WOT... Typically normal is 2-3 PSI fall period beyond that you got line restrictions, plugged filters, air leaks, or failing pump. Like my truck I idle at 19 PSI and WOT stompped I can go clean up to 85 MPH, 35 PSI of Boost and still be looking at 17 PSI...

Alright, I am playing devils advocate here, but cannot the newer pumps with the quick connects or even your old school pump do the same thing if they start sucking air some where? If the pump goes you are pretty well screwed whether it is a raptor or an ad.

If the raptor is plumbed to the oe canister and you are using the oe plumbing from there to the vp the restriction is counter productive and you will see bad pressure drops between idle and WOT.

To FlatTwin, when you install your new pump it would be wise to invest in a big line kit from the oe filter canister to the VP. It will open up alot of fuel flow to the vp and you will see lesser fuel pressure drops. it does cost about $40, but is worth every dime.

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To FlatTwin, The thing that really might cost you the pump is driving it home with no pressure. That might have cost you alot of money. Put the new pump and see what happens. you might get lucky:pray:

Dave, Thanks and know what you mean. Problem is, in the area where I live, we lose loads of trucks to Mexico every day. You leave a Cummins or F250 out in the boonies or in a back country road and when you come back... well its not there anymore, stolen and run across the border and gone forever. Even vehicles with blown engine and so on, they put them on tow trucks and they are gone. Getting it back to civilization or better yet my house was my goal and made it. I have already pretty much given up on the VP in the truck so will get the Raptor back on the truck, see if it runs but am shopping around for VP's right now anyway. Feel that the VP in the truck was really overheated in this drive, so IMHO its toast. I did go out and start it after it sat for 3 hours and it started right up and as well the Raptor came up with normal pressure, but soon started dying down again, so its gone. Would love to have a VP from Blue Chip, but just cannot afford it right now. Looking like "The diesel store" or "DAP" are both in the running right now. Thx, Joe EDIT, I have the big line kit and drawstraw kit on the truck right now but did not run the hose all the way. It goes to the stock filter assy from the tank to the Raptor, but not from the filter assy to the VP. Changing out the VP I will then run the last little bit of hose and that should cure my fuel pressure situation. It really does not drop that much, usually 3-4 psi, but could be better.
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I have bought some stuff from Jacob at DAP and ben very satified with him. I dont know anything good or bad about the diesel store. No matter who you get it from be sure it comes with a new computer. That is a must when you get one. If it has an old one you will never know when it is going to fry completely. I have a Blue Chip on mine and it is working great. I do beleive he takes it a little bit further than others. I cant prove that but he covinced me while I had the money in my pocket. $1700 2 years ago. If mine blew tommorrow(still only got a one year warranty)I would have to shop elsewhere. Do you run any 2 cycle in your fuel? If not it is cheap insurance for your fuel system and you might consider it. Here is a good read.http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/63-adding-2-cycle-oil-to-diesel-fuel

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Alright, I am playing devils advocate here, but cannot the newer pumps with the quick connects or even your old school pump do the same thing if they start sucking air some where? If the pump goes you are pretty well screwed whether it is a raptor or an ad. If the raptor is plumbed to the oe canister and you are using the oe plumbing from there to the vp the restriction is counter productive and you will see bad pressure drops between idle and WOT. To FlatTwin, when you install your new pump it would be wise to invest in a big line kit from the oe filter canister to the VP. It will open up alot of fuel flow to the vp and you will see lesser fuel pressure drops. it does cost about $40, but is worth every dime.

Ok... As for the AD series pump a small air leak would most likely not show any pressure drop because of the heavy return flow anyways. Now as for the Pushloc / JIC those fitting are nearly foolproof and solid rarely give any problems for air leakage. But now the new system with quick connects I've already talk to a person about this and in formed me the quick connects are not designed for suction hence why AD systems are failing more so. True with the Raptor system it does replace the last piece of line to the VP44 which is very restrictive and will cause pressure loss. I typically inform people to get the Big Line kit from Eric over at VulcanPerformance and replace that last piece of line. Then on top of that I know the AirDog filter are much better filters over the stock drop in media. But after having my system I'm more prone to keeping the stock one as a fallback filter because after 50K miles the stock filter starts to darken with material that has maded past the AirDog filters. Maybe thats why my whole fuel system is trouble free double filters, good solid fuel pressure (2-3 PSI drop), and using a fuel lubricant. I'm heading for 200K miles on the VP44 and no signs of failure yet! :hyper:
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I have bought some stuff from Jacob at DAP and ben very satified with him. I dont know anything good or bad about the diesel store. No matter who you get it from be sure it comes with a new computer. That is a must when you get one. If it has an old one you will never know when it is going to fry completely. I have a Blue Chip on mine and it is working great. I do beleive he takes it a little bit further than others. I cant prove that but he covinced me while I had the money in my pocket. $1700 2 years ago. If mine blew tommorrow(still only got a one year warranty)I would have to shop elsewhere. Do you run any 2 cycle in your fuel? If not it is cheap insurance for your fuel system and you might consider it. Here is a good read.http://articles.mopar1973man.com/general-cummins/36-fuel-system/63-adding-2-cycle-oil-to-diesel-fuel

Thanks for the info and will see how things sound tomorrow. I have been running two cycle oil in my fuel for years now and very happy with what it does. Mike, I bought the Raptor from Eric at Vulcan along with the drawstraw and big line kit. Did all of it, just ran out of time on the last two feet from the filter assy housing but will do that when I replace the VP.
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Kyle is a real piece of work. He does not stand behind his warranties at all.

A statement like that from a man with a reputation like you carries alot of weight. I take it you have had more than one reason to call it that way. I would be interested in your experiences. Mine AD has run great since install(12 months)with no problem.So I have no experience with warranty.
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Dave,My issue with Kyle is that even if a new owner sends the warranty card in, there is no way to guarantee that it arrives in their hands or is processed correctly once there. Its totally out of our hands. Then you get a jerk like Kyle who could care less about taking care of an existing customer or future sales, and see's things in only "black and white".... kinda like the "soup Nazi." Does not matter to him if you sent the card in or not, you do not get any soup or a warranty on a defective product, even though as customers you deserve both. He has no understanding that customers vote with their feet and their $$ and after treatment like this, we go elsewhere when its time to buy new equipment and parts.With this new/replacement pump that Diane is sending me I am going to again return the warranty card by mail, but also scan and email her a copy of the card, so that there is no question that it was filled out and returned. As for Kyle, he can go screw himself and take his product with him. I do not spend money with jerks... Joe

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Ok... As for the AD series pump a small air leak would most likely not show any pressure drop because of the heavy return flow anyways.

Now as for the Pushloc / JIC those fitting are nearly foolproof and solid rarely give any problems for air leakage. But now the new system with quick connects I've already talk to a person about this and in formed me the quick connects are not designed for suction hence why AD systems are failing more so.

True with the Raptor system it does replace the last piece of line to the VP44 which is very restrictive and will cause pressure loss. I typically inform people to get the Big Line kit from Eric over at VulcanPerformance and replace that last piece of line. Then on top of that I know the AirDog filter are much better filters over the stock drop in media. But after having my system I'm more prone to keeping the stock one as a fallback filter because after 50K miles the stock filter starts to darken with material that has maded past the AirDog filters.

Maybe thats why my whole fuel system is trouble free double filters, good solid fuel pressure (2-3 PSI drop), and using a fuel lubricant. I'm heading for 200K miles on the VP44 and no signs of failure yet! :hyper:

I have my system connected thru the oe filter cansister also. My AD has the quick connects, one end you can remove with you fingers and the other end you need a removal tool. Not sure why they are differant on each end. Maybe this is where my hard start isuue is comming from. It has probably only happened a half a dozen times in over a year. starts fine 99.5% of the time.

I very much agee that the filtration is much better with the full AD set up. Might change the fittings on day in the future.

--- Update to the previous post...

Dave,

My issue with Kyle is that even if a new owner sends the warranty card in, there is no way to guarantee that it arrives in their hands or is processed correctly once there. Its totally out of our hands. Then you get a jerk like Kyle who could care less about taking care of an existing customer or future sales, and see's things in only "black and white".... kinda like the "soup Nazi."

Does not matter to him if you sent the card in or not, you do not get any soup or a warranty on a defective product, even though as customers you deserve both. He has no understanding that customers vote with their feet and their $$ and after treatment like this, we go elsewhere when its time to buy new equipment and parts.

With this new/replacement pump that Diane is sending me I am going to again return the warranty card by mail, but also scan and email her a copy of the card, so that there is no question that it was filled out and returned.

As for Kyle, he can go screw himself and take his product with him. I do not spend money with jerks...

Joe

I have to agree with you. Someone treets me like that I am going elswhere in a heartbeat.
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If you converted all your plumbing over to old school JIC and PushLoc's you'll be 100% air tight and solid on the plumbing where as the quick connects loose there sealing ability because they rely on O rings. But over time the O-rings will deform and leak. Where the old school JIC fittings are a compression fitting that has nothing to fail.

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Well I thought things were improving...Installed the new replacement Raptor 100 this morning and it went pretty quickly.Hooked everything up and started the truck. Took a second for pressure to build up but finally stopped at 26 psi. Just a bit too much for my liking so got back under the truck and unscrewed the pressure adjustment screw and tested it again.Whoa... went up to 20 then right on up to 38-40. Did not matter what I did with the adjustment screw, it sits on this figure which I assume is the max the pump will put out. It does not move a bit even when I blip the throttle. Have not driven it. Then took the old adjustment screw out of the old pump and tried it. Same thing but the "O" rings on the old pump are showing some age... Suggestions? Ideas? Am guessing that 40 psi is a bit too much to be driving the truck with... Thx, Joe

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