In this thread, we talk about stacking a Smarty & Edge Comp for LESS SMOKE

[CSM]

Ok, The 2002 I have has 140hp injectors in it. The thing can smoke like a train fired on wet leaves until the turbo spools if I have the sub levels on the Comp over 2. It has good power and adequate fueling at higher RPM as well, and can overload the turbo if I am not careful. Overall the truck has more than enough power, I don't need more. I've lit up the new 285 BFGs on dry pavement while rolling before, much to the wife's dismay. :lmao:What I do want, is to keep the timing of the Comp at 5, while reducing a bit of fuel at higher RPM and a fair amount less at lower RPM. Ideally, I would change to smaller injectors, but since I have a smarty and edge, why not do it with electronics?The way I understand it, stacked, the fuel would come from the smarty, but the timing would come from the edge. All I would need to do is plug in the smarty and change the software.Would running the Comp on 5, and then running the smarty at 2 or 4 do what I am looking for? Less overall fuel, while still keeping the timing? I know Mike has played with this, but I haven't yet. I am also kicking around the idea of turning the comp off for the winter, and trying out Smarty's winter fuel software for A/T trucks... Anybody try that?

[diesel4life]

I cant really comment on stacking and how they will work together but that does sound logical. As long as you are using the even catchers on the smarty I would think it might work. As for the winter software of the smarty, Im assuming you mean the cold weather high idle? Once you have downloaded a catcher into your ecm the feature will be there always. However, it really doesnt work unless its very cold out because it doesnt kick into high idle according to outside air temps it kicks on according to intake air temps. Even when the truck has been sitting, youre instantly making heat once you turn the ignition on due to the heater elements cycling on and off. So like I say its really gotta be cold for the high idle to kick on. And if you plug your truck in during the cold weather (I do) you will not see the high idle at all because of the warm temps of the coolant. Ive actually ordered and am waiting on a high idle/mpg fooler from prowelder so that I can take advantage of the high idle feature when I want it.

[JOHNFAK]

Disconnect the wire tap of the comp Have you tried running smarty only with your injectors ... No comp Get the timing from smarty I don't think you can run level 5 comp stacked and just get timing. Your still getting fuel and timing from comp and then fuel signal via CAN and no timing from smarty

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok remember this...ECM -> Smarty -> Edge Comp -> VP44 -> 140 HP InjectorsSo what ever you set the Smarty to then then the Edge Comp is increasing that signal again. In all reality I would say you way heavy fuel already and could stand to lose the Smarty for the daily driving and rely on the Edge for the most of it since the only thing Smarty is doing is kicking just fuel.

[CSM]

Ok remember this...

ECM -> Smarty -> Edge Comp -> VP44 -> 140 HP Injectors

So what ever you set the Smarty to then then the Edge Comp is increasing that signal again. In all reality I would say you way heavy fuel already and could stand to lose the Smarty for the daily driving and rely on the Edge for the most of it since the only thing Smarty is doing is kicking just fuel.

Thanks Mike. Time to go play with settings again to find a happy medium of fuel and advance... I sure wish that we have the Smarty UDC for the VP trucks. I would be tuning like crazy... Well, if I had any free time.

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Disconnect the wire tap of the comp

Have you tried running smarty only with your injectors ... No comp

Get the timing from smarty

I don't think you can run level 5 comp stacked and just get timing. Your still getting fuel and timing from comp

and then fuel signal via CAN and no timing from smarty

I want to try that. I will sooner or later when I get some time.

[AH64ID]

I'm not super smart on VP Smarty settings, but based on your sig line I would try the following. Comp offSmarty S03, Revo Software SW5, Torque on 2 (1 if you get too much off idle smoke), Timing on 2, Duration on 2. Then up the duration until you are happy. You could also up the timing a little more, but remember that injectors themselves advance timing by getting more fuel into the cylinder sooner, thus igniting sooner. I wouldn't run Timing 4, 3 would be the max.

[JOHNFAK]

Sounds to me like he just has too much fuel. I played around with the revo recently and didn't really see much difference on the 24v - have to do some more. I think with 140inj and smarty he doesn't need the stack unless he's running a turbo 64/66 etc .....

[JOHNFAK]

Any updates ?

[98whitelightnin]

John, do you have a smarty? I have been wanting to try one but I think you wil be better off removing thwe smarty competely. I have been running my comp on 2x3 to control smoke and its working great with plenty of power.

[CSM]

Any updates ?

A bit of one. I haven't messed with the smarty yet, as I have been trying to work out what I can do with the Edge. I took it on a 2000 mi trip, and played with all the settings. I will probably take it on a similar work trip soon, and will bring the smarty along for that one. Depending on the sub levels, I can actually get some pretty good performance out of it at the 2 and 3 primary levels, and 2-3 sub levels. It gets 15-17 mpg there, and I expect a gain of a couple mpg back once I put the 3rd gen track bar on. Smoke and temps are good for driving when setup in 2x3 or 3x2 and still has the performance I like. I would really like to be able to take just a shade of fuel out at the top end... and keep the timing. Temps aren't that bad when driving around, but when I floor it (say to pass) the temps get a bit warm. The main reason I haven't been able to play with it lately is that some local kids keep breaking into it trying to steal the gauges and radio. So... its parked at my office until further notice. In thinking about what Mike talked about above... I think that the higher HP injectors may not necessarily be giving more fuel themselves, but giving less of a pressure drop across the injector nozzle and allowing for a lot more fuel flow at lower pressure given by the smarty/comp. He is still correct in how the smarty and the comp will add their maps. As a side note I wonder if the injector pump sees less "pressure" at very high fueling due to the higher flow injectors. I really want to try the smarty, as I think it will give me the low end fuel and timing I want... However, I really just want them to release the new software so I can play to my hearts content. I think I am going to start on the smarty REVO at 7 and play with the settings til I find something that I like. Though, if I lose too much power from the Comp, I will probably just keep the comp going until the new smarty software comes out. The comp actually has a pretty good low end power curve for drivability, but I just want less fuel up high. I am confident in my transmission to hold whatever Smarty dishes, but I want to find a happy medium that isn't going to be too squirrely in winter. I am somewhat eager to try the "winter blend" software that is on there for automatic trucks. Hopefully that makes sense. Any ideas? ETA: as a side note, the truck will look/sound/feel like a tractor pull at the higher levels if I hold the brakes to get the turbo to spool... I only did it once, and don't plan on doing it again, but it was fun to do. 25-30psi sitting still, and 45+ and grabbing gears with the tires burning after the brakes are released.

[JOHNFAK]

No real ideas. I'm actually changing again now that I have the bigger injectors and just going to run a smarty and tst. I love the edge especially the CTS but the smarty is nice down low and I need to start monitoring primary boost as well as secondary above 45psi ... As good as the edge is for alround chip ... And great for monitoring ...

[CSM]

No real ideas. I'm actually changing again now that I have the bigger injectors and just going to run a smarty and tst. I love the edge especially the CTS but the smarty is nice down low and I need to start monitoring primary boost as well as secondary above 45psi ... As good as the edge is for alround chip ... And great for monitoring ...

Hah. I don't want another CTS. I already have your smarty! lol! I've got a CTS sitting in the box, but I like the Comp over the CTS, unless Edge let me change the maps on the CTS to what I want.

[JOHNFAK]

Hah. I don't want another CTS. I already have your smarty! lol! I've got a CTS sitting in the box, but I like the Comp over the CTS, unless Edge let me change the maps on the CTS to what I want.

Whats wrong with the CTS ? Same as the comp - except has all teh touch screen display ? yeah I bought another one ......smarty ...... just wanted more down low rather than top end .... still ike it although it has messed with my throttle positioning and lockup a bit ...

[CSM]

Whats wrong with the CTS ? Same as the comp - except has all teh touch screen display ? yeah I bought another one ......smarty ...... just wanted more down low rather than top end .... still ike it although it has messed with my throttle positioning and lockup a bit ...

On mine, the Juice module is fried. I had voltage feeding back through the Air Dog relay on my 2000 and it fried it... Edge wants $300 to fix it, so it sitting in the box. I may have them fix it and put it on the 2000. Who knows... Might help the 2000 sell. After that whole deal and Edge's technical side... I got kinda miffed at Edge. As for CTS vs Comp, I don't like that I have to unlock it. The comp has that 120hp good to go.

[JOHNFAK]

On mine, the Juice module is fried. I had voltage feeding back through the Air Dog relay on my 2000 and it fried it... Edge wants $300 to fix it, so it sitting in the box. I may have them fix it and put it on the 2000. Who knows... Might help the 2000 sell. After that whole deal and Edge's technical side... I got kinda miffed at Edge. As for CTS vs Comp, I don't like that I have to unlock it. The comp has that 120hp good to go.

Oh I remember that now .... yeah that sucks on Edge behalf. Can you run the CTS without teh juice module for guages ? The juice/comp should be same with or without unlock ...... still 120HP each ..... just the unlock will allow it to fuel to high RPM is all as I understand it.

[CSM]

Oh I remember that now .... yeah that sucks on Edge behalf. Can you run the CTS without teh juice module for guages ? .

I don't believe so. I would still need to plug it into the data port, and the boost port, etc. I have gauges anyway, so the Comp stays. Though I think I am going to try the smarty when I can, and see how it drives.

[CSM]

I'm not super smart on VP Smarty settings, but based on your sig line I would try the following. Comp off Smarty S03, Revo Software SW5, Torque on 2 (1 if you get too much off idle smoke), Timing on 2, Duration on 2. Then up the duration until you are happy. You could also up the timing a little more, but remember that injectors themselves advance timing by getting more fuel into the cylinder sooner, thus igniting sooner. I wouldn't run Timing 4, 3 would be the max.

Two things. One, setup as said above, SW5,2,2,2. Ran great, great feel to the power, but nothing crazy. It didn't throw me into the seat in the top end like the Comp, but it didn't smoke like the comp either. Smoother overall power, nice little smarty puff of smoke at start, and actually 100F lower exhaust temps. Two, I was waiting for about 15min in a Wal-Mart lot waiting for my guys to text me their order of stuff (in this case a new soldering iron). I decided to just plug in the ABS tire height and fix the speedo, as well as try a little stouter torque management to see if it changed the shifting of the 47RE. As I pulled out of the wal mart with my soldering iron, the truck pulled really weird, and it turned out as I pulled onto I-70 that no matter what gear I selected, I was in converter 3rd. Period. CRAP! So, I assume that the Smarty screwed it all up, and revert back to completely stock software. No change. Still single speed truck. (though, it still drove decent with the low stall ATS 5-star converter) So, 400 mi from home I found the issue. A wire, from the previous owners botched converter lock up switch, had vibrated loose EXACTLY the same time that I stopped and put in the ABS sensor. The wire was grounding out a circuit in the trans it shouldn't have. The torque converter circuit codes clued me on to this, but I was still pretty lucky in finding the issue in about 30min. Smarty is back in, running GREAT, and I think the comp is probably going to get removed next weekend if it doesn't snow around here. Hotel parking lots are good for working on a Cummins right? Also, every time I take this thing out, I notice that it drives like a brand new truck after about 50 miles of sustained driving. The temps drop some, the turbo spools WAY faster, and the truck runs a ton smoother. I am convinced that with these injectors and the Comp in combination with the injectors being rather smoky, that the exhaust ports, valves, and whatnot get really carboned up.

[CSM]

Update:The REVO torque management at 2 shifts way too high. 3 seems to be an OK compromise. I have tried 2-4. The shift points aren't perfect anymore, but they are good. Duration at 2 seems good. I will likely play with the timing up to 3 soon and see how it likes it now that the torque management is lined out. Overall, the truck isn't nearly as stout as with the Comp, but it drives way better.

[AH64ID]

It's possible to have a smoother more powerful tune, with less seat of the pants feel because it's smooth. This is something the EFI Live/UDC tunes are really good at.

[CSM]

It's possible to have a smoother more powerful tune, with less seat of the pants feel because it's smooth. This is something the EFI Live/UDC tunes are really good at.

True. From what I understand though, the VP trucks need that wire tap to keep the VP from automatically defueling past a certain point. Either way though, I like how it drives and it has enough power for me. I wish I could tweak a couple things, and I REALLY wish I could fine tune the parameters for the torque management and throttle position.