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Utah Dually

Lift Pump Confusion - 2001

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I just purchased my first diesel truck from Nampa Idaho. It is a 2001 Quad Cab Dually 5 speed with only 65K on the clock. Got it from the original owner. The only mods he did to the truck was to put a 98 gallon aux tank and some Dr. Performance injectors and a jake brake. I have been reading about lift pumps and I am a bit confused. My friend who know a little about diesels showed me the lift pump on the dirvers side of the block. But I keep reading about a pump in the gas tank. I want to protect my VP44 and make it last as long as I can by upgrading the lift pump. The Blue Chip bolt on looks like a good option, but do I have to tear into the gas tank sender and cut up a bunch of stuff also? (remember I am as green as they come regarding diesels) I thought I would never give up my 79 Chev Dually as a tow truck, but you just can't beat these things... So what is the best way to go for better protection? The only other mods I plan to do is a boost - fuel pressure - egt gauge set.... Thanks for the help in advance....

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If your lift pump is still on the side of motor then you do not have a pump in the tank. The original place for the lift pump was on the motor. That turned out to be a bad place so dodge tried to right a wrong by placing the pump in the tank which most would say was just as bad. So there's not two pumps just one either on the motor or in the tank. As for aftermarket lp I would stay away from factory type replacement. I looked at those to try to save money but after research and advice on here I spent a little more on a quality lp. Airdog, fass, raptor. I chose the airdog 100 because like you I don't plan on any mods and the 100 is enough for me. Also if you do get the AD 100 you don't have to drop the tank to install it. No matter what you chose you don't want your fuel psi drops below 10 but it's also better to be over 14 psi to keep the overflow open on the vp44 to help keep it cool. mop atman and others will chime in to give you great feedback. Congrats on the purchase you will love it.

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I just purchased my first diesel truck from Nampa Idaho. It is a 2001 Quad Cab Dually 5 speed with only 65K on the clock. Got it from the original owner. The only mods he did to the truck was to put a 98 gallon aux tank and some Dr. Performance injectors and a jake brake. I have been reading about lift pumps and I am a bit confused. My friend who know a little about diesels showed me the lift pump on the dirvers side of the block. But I keep reading about a pump in the gas tank. I want to protect my VP44 and make it last as long as I can by upgrading the lift pump. The Blue Chip bolt on looks like a good option, but do I have to tear into the gas tank sender and cut up a bunch of stuff also? (remember I am as green as they come regarding diesels) I thought I would never give up my 79 Chev Dually as a tow truck, but you just can't beat these things... So what is the best way to go for better protection? The only other mods I plan to do is a boost - fuel pressure - egt gauge set.... Thanks for the help in advance....

walsey is correct, if its on the block then it hasnt been retrofitted to the tank. Look at fass, pureflow or a mechanical pump like this http://www.cumminsperformanceparts.com/dttasmefupu.html

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The retrofit lift pump basics: If you are staying pretty stock, you could use a 100 gph lift pump (remember a lot of fuel is returned to the tank) and leave the tank alone. If you go to 150 gph the stock pickup will not flow that much & you need a bigger suction pickup which requires dropping the tank or lifting the bed.

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Thanks guys... What determins if you have to modify the gas tank sending unit? Pressure or the amount of fuel you are pulling? Since I am a drag racer and bought this truck to pull my car, I like the mechanical pump idea.. Like a mechanical fuel pump for injectors.

Where is the best place to buy gauges and a pod?

Thanks again....

- - - Updated - - -

Flagmanruss - Got it... we must have been posting at the same time....

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2nd on the isspro's. I have run them on a few trucks and never had a problem. I ran a mechanical guage with stainless lines (prolly overkill) - wrapped in old 69 corvette head light vacuum lines so I wouldn't hear anything from possible vibration. Never had a problem, but I like the smell of diesel in the morning. :thumbup2:

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Also running a DiPricol mechanical fuel pressure gauge with air brake line. Never had any issues with line breaking in the cab and leaking. If air brake line is good enough for over the road trucks and has burst pressure around 600-800 PSI I doubt there will be a issue with using on a fuel pressure gauge if protected properly.

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So I am not sure buying this truck has been a good thing because I can’t stop reading about these things. Just kidding, but I am compulsive about wanting to understand and know the right way to do things. Which leads me to the following...It seems like a lot of people think by upping the fuel pressure to the pump it will have a greater cooling effect on the pump. It sounded reasonable until I found out that the by-pass is before the pump. The pump is only going to flow the amount of fuel the engine is using, so I can’t see increased pressure having any significant extra cooling effect. With the by-pass before the pump you lose most of that effect. If the by-pass was on the back side of the pump and extra fuel was flowing thru the pump I can see that working. But with the by-pass before the pump, you will lose most of that effect, but perhaps a small increase is all that is needed.I am a drag racer and use to working with mechanical fuel injection with both electrical and mechanical pumps. The big advantage the mechanical pump has is increased flow with an increase in RPM’s for race car injections. But, and electrical pump can be made to work just fine. It always boils down to “Does it work or is it the Hot Rod Bullet Proof setup”. What is different about this diesel set up is you are increasing the pressure before the pump – ok, but the pump is what is building pressure to the injectors, right? I am assuming that the front end increase in pressure has a positive effect on how the pump builds pressure to the injectors (non withstanding the positive influence of an adequate supply at all times). If the reports of increased mileage are true, then the presumed injector side pressure increase must be developing better atomization like happens with race car injection. However I haven't seen anyone testing the input pressure vs. the output pressure.The bottom line appears to be a better lift pump is a good thing. But there are a million ways to skin that cat. Putting a replacement pump on the side of the block does not sound like a good idea to me. I would presume the heat and vibration is one of the issues with the original pump, so putting a better built pump in the same environment will increase life, but failure will still be premature. It seems that placing a Raptor or similar stock replacement pump on the frame would help elemate the heat/vibration issue and perhaps prolong the pumps life. But if failure is always eminent, in service replacement has to be consideration. Then there is the fuel pick up issue. I am having trouble with reading about replacing the draw straw then running out of fuel at ¼ tank. In the pictures I have seen it appears to be at the same location as the stock pick up or the in tank lift pump, so why doesn’t the pump pick it up? This has me stumped. Then it is recommended to remove the sock filter, increasing the debris going thru your brand new replacement pump.I talked to DTT yesterday, but got cut off before I could ask them about how this pump picks up fuel on start up. Then I got busy at work and couldn’t call them back. I do like the idea of a mechanical pump but one issue seems to be the by-pass valve. They use the same type by-pass as we use in racing applications. We call them pop off valves. There seems to be an issue with these and diesel fuel with any type of small debris and possiable long term corrosion. Nothing is perfect. So for now it seems the hot rod set up for a guy with a stock setup and nothing beyond injectors would be a Raptor/Fass type pump on the frame rail, with a filter between the tank and pump, ½ inch line from the tank to the filter/ pump – ½ line to the stock filter to retain the fuel heating – then a big line kit from the filter to the pump, with quick connect fittings on the pump so it can be serviced quickly on the side of the road – of course an extra pump in the truck. Am I starting to get a grip on it? If not, please help me understand where I am going wrong….

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The 1/4 tank out of fuel issue is simple to understand. The tank pickup installs have several options... and problems.1 If the removed tank sits on it's bottom in the shop, the bottom can flex enough to throw the pick up tube measurement off. 2 The OEM basket was designed for lower flow rates. If you plumb an after market high volume pump into the basket, leave the basket strainers in place, and plumb the return line outside the basket, it is possible to empty the basket of fuel & starve the engine even though there is plenty of fuel in the tank (1/4 tank). With more fuel, it just comes in over the top. You can mod the basket by removing the strainers or plumb the return into the basket. 3 You can install a new pickup line outside the basket & return into the basket (using the old pickup fitting... commonly done). The basket includes the gas gauge so needs to be reinstalled even if the pickup is not used.4 Yes, even the failure prone OEM lift pump does better mounted low on the frame nearer the tank & easily serviceable. The Dodge retro-fit intank pump is a pain to service & not much better as far as fuel pressure.

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Flagmanruss - Thanks... One video I watched regarding retro fitting a straw recommended drilling three holes in the side of the basket to let fuel in about an inch and a half up from the bottom of the basket. Seemed like a good idea on the surface.

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Modifying the basket by adding holes or removing the screens will work... once you understand the problem, there are several solutions.

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Thanks for everyone’s help. With the guidance of the forum members and a few distributors I have spoken with I am going to do the following. I am going to go with the Airdog 100 – Don’t have to mess with taking out the fuel tank pick up since my lift pump is on the block, plum it to the stock filter and replace all the fittings with larger fittings and a big line from the stock filter to the VP44. I don’t plan to hop my truck up, so I think I will be good with that setup. I am also going to put the ISSOPro gauge pod with EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, and perhaps a 4” exhaust. I think I am going to purchase the pump and gauges & big line kit from Vulcan.

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I m thinking doing the same ,is your air dog 100 set up with filters ?Where are you mounting your pump?

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The only thing to be aware of if your doing any offroad service even plowed roads I would highly suggest you reconsider your mounting because any pump mounted flat to the frame rail will be beat up from all road debris thrown by the front tires. So consider you mounting location wisely. :smart:

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Michael you have the AD150 set up,did you increase the 3/8 steel line from the tank & drawstraw ?

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Michael you have the AD150 set up,did you increase the 3/8 steel line from the tank & drawstraw ?

I'm full 1/2" line from the Drawstraw I to the VP44 including the stock filter is on the system. There is is no old fuel plumbing left in my setup.

I have mine mounted on the outside of the frame rail just behind the cab. No problem with road debris there.

The only reason I said this is from driving up and down forestry road the filter use to get dents from all the roads and tree limbs I would run over. I figured on day I would be unlucky and poke a hole. :rolleyes:

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Not trying to hi-jack the thread but, this weekend I tested my block mounted lift pump, I pulled it off the truck and jumper wired it to check pressure, the pump has a red and black wire fromthe pump side connector. I thought the black was ground, black from the engine side of the connector is ground, ran the pump and no pressure, reversed the wires and BAM 26 psi. I purchased the truck used and don't know the history but the pump wiring is reversed and could never have put out any pressure/fuel. So black is positive and red is negative on this block pump.

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My AD 150 is mounted to the inside of the frame rail with the supplied brackets... easiest hose runs & good access for filter changes. If you deal with Vulcan, they'll send you the right stuff.

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