Anyone here a woodworker?

[hex0rz]

Ugh, this is frustrating. I was never a woodworker by trade and have pretty basic skills when it comes to that sort of thing. I was hoping to see if anyone here knows what my problems could be...

 

I'm getting my butt into gear and trying to get my beehives built before mid-april when I'm supposed to receive my bees. I'm buying 2x8 lumber and ripping them on end to make 1x8 out of it. I'm trying to make sure I get clean cuts as possible but there are a couple issues I'm running into.

 

I've been borrowing the in-laws table saw, its a cheap 10" portable skil table saw. When I mean cheap, I mean cheap. I'm disappointed in SKIL! I've been able to manage to make it work alright so far. Definitely triple checking the fence for straightness.

 

I presume the blade they had on it was the original that came with it. Piece of junk, I almost went deaf using the dang thing! So, I broke down and went out and got the DIABLO brand blade. I believe I got a 40T blade and then got an 8" dade blade set as well.

 

So, I'm having two problems:

 

1. When I'm trying to rip these 2x8's on end, I cut them to length first and not rip the whole 8' at once. I realize warpage is a risk here. But even then, my pieces range from 16-19" in length. Which I would not see being too much of a problem. I'm putting the pieces on the saw and ripping them a little at a time. Every pass I make I raise the blade a few turns then cut again. With this saw, and the height of the wood, I'm still left with about 1/2" of wood in the center that I cut out with my sawzall.

 

Except, when I start ripping these pieces, I dunno whats going on. Its like one moment the blade goes straight and true into the wood and I'm making the cut center on the board and then the next it seems to cut a different direction! I dunno if this is due to the saw, the blade, etc? Its got me confused.

 

I've also noticed that the lumber I bought is from the local sawmill. I used to work at one of their locations so I know they kiln-dry the wood. But heck, by the time I get all the wood cut I can before I use the sawzall, it seems like the board is cupping really good. Could it still just be too wet?

 

I had some 2x8 from a year ago that I used first before I went out and bought more so I could experiment with it and they worked real well. I'm not sure I could say that they were any drier though? Still had some cupping action to the board on them as well.

 

2. So I have to make some dado cuts and I just cannot explain this one either. I have only one idea of what it could be. The saw never came with a dado plate for the deck. So I had to make my own out of some 1/8" board. It sits nice and flush and works great. Except, being that it is so thin, it flexes. When I take my piece and dado cut it, from one end to the other, the cut is somewhat wavy and the ends have cuts deeper than the middle.

 

The middle is the proper depth cut, but the ends have deeper cuts. Now, to me that seems that the plate I made is flexing as I cross it to make my cut? But I still cannot explain why then it would be wavy? I made my dado cuts on the pieces this evening before I ripped them and the problem is virtually gone. Its not perfect, but very close.

 

At this rate, I'm getting more and more serious about getting myself a better table saw. A man just cannot work in these conditions! Time to talk to the boss...

 

ALSO, would I be better off using a 24T FTG ripping blade instead of the 40T blade? I've been trying to get as clean a cut as possible when ripping it, and its not bad, but I don't want to have to try and beg for a saw AND a planer!

 

Anyone got some input on this? I really try and do the best I can with what I've got, but this is driving me nuts as I tend to be a perfectionist and I would hate to have someone look at my hive and tell me how ugly they were. Although, atleast I know the bees won't care, and I will have my honey!

Edited March 15, 2014 by hex0rz

[flagmanruss]

I'm not a great carpenter...  it's been a long time...   others with more skill won't hurt my feelings. 

 

It may be that the motor mount on your cheap saw is flexing or more likely the direct drive unit is has some end play in the motor Sooo  the blade can walk sideways.  I had a cheap table saw...  when a real carpenter built a barn for me... or his school class did.  Actually he was a teacher but ran a construction business on the side & summers building million dollar houses.   He went out & put the most expensive carbide saw blade on that saw...  was so sharp that it cut very well & made the most of the cheap saw.  I paid for the blade & he left to to me.  I was amazed.  

I kept a similar cheap saw in my install van...  because I could take it on the road where a better saw would be too big & heavy. 

 

When you set the fence, use a good rule & measure from the fence to the nearest tooth on the saw...  rotate the blade (unplug the thing!) by hand & measure both feed & exit sides.  A little run out can make you crazy. 

 

I never messed wit dao blades.  My Dad...  his father was a millwright & cabinet maker...  made parallel cuts & took them out with a chisel.  You could hog out where the daos are to go with your carbide & then use the dao to finish.  Today, many folks would do the same job with a router.   

Edited March 15, 2014 by flagmanruss

[JAG1]

Anthony, give me a phone call..... I put my number in your PM's.

 

Your PM does not work so call..... five zero three 577- 34 zero zero.

 

Mike

Edited March 15, 2014 by JAG1

[joecool911]

Why don't you just buy the boxes? Need to be specific size to hold the frames. I don't see much in savings here. It's all the foundation and frames that cost money. A lot if small pieces and not much cost in any one component. Ruhl bee supply.

http://www.bee-outside.com/pnwfirstyearhivekit.aspx

Edited March 15, 2014 by joecool911

[CTcummins24V]

Ripping a 2x8 (1.5"x7.25" actual) into a 1x8 (1"x7.25" actual)? Why not just buy a 1x8 (.75"x7.25" actual), do you need that extra 1/4"? Also, it comes out nicer when you to rip the whole piece to width then cut to length. A 40 tooth blade should be a cleaner cut than a 24 tooth. Did you check for square, the blade and the rip fence against the table? (use a speed square or framing square) This kinda sounds like the saw is out of whack.

[hex0rz]

When you set the fence, use a good rule & measure from the fence to the nearest tooth on the saw...  rotate the blade (unplug the thing!) by hand & measure both feed & exit sides.  A little run out can make you crazy. 

 

I never messed wit dao blades.  My Dad...  his father was a millwright & cabinet maker...  made parallel cuts & took them out with a chisel.  You could hog out where the daos are to go with your carbide & then use the dao to finish.  Today, many folks would do the same job with a router.   

 

Yea, I measue from the fore and aft of the blade teeth to the fence. Then I measure the distance of the fence to the channels for the miter gauge so I have a better measure since the two points are longer. I did not bother with a speedsquare, guess I'll need to check that one as well. I've got a router and table as well. Maybe I will have to experiment a little with that as well.

 

Anthony, give me a phone call..... I put my number in your PM's.

 

Your PM does not work so call..... five zero three 577- 34 zero zero.

 

Mike

 

What time zone are you in? I dunno why my PM does not work? I'm going to be out for the day spending time with the wife so I probably cannot talk. I'm up during the night and asleep during the day for the most part as I work night shift.

 

Why don't you just buy the boxes? Need to be specific size to hold the frames. I don't see much in savings here. It's all the foundation and frames that cost money. A lot if small pieces and not much cost in any one component. Ruhl bee supply.

http://www.bee-outside.com/pnwfirstyearhivekit.aspx

 

They do need to be a certain size to hold the frames, yes. But its also not rocketscience to build one either. I'm saving HUGE on building my own boxes. I can almost build three for the price of the cheapest ONE I have found so far. I've got plans for building my frames as well that will be CENTS on the dollar!

 

I do not have as much money to throw around as other beeks so I'm improvising. I have no real plans on buying equipment, ever. There may be some that I may not have time or knowledge to build that I will buy, but it can all be overcome.

 

Ripping a 2x8 (1.5"x7.25" actual) into a 1x8 (1"x7.25" actual)? Why not just buy a 1x8 (.75"x7.25" actual), do you need that extra 1/4"? Also, it comes out nicer when you to rip the whole piece to width then cut to length. A 40 tooth blade should be a cleaner cut than a 24 tooth. Did you check for square, the blade and the rip fence against the table? (use a speed square or framing square) This kinda sounds like the saw is out of whack.

 

I do have to sacrifice some, and the ripped 2x8 into a 1x8 is not truly a dimensionial 1x. Its very close, like a 1/16th" close. It does not bother me much as like I said, its saving me alot of money. I have no idea how I could expect to rip a whole 2x8x8 with a table saw. I would need at the very least a bandsaw that could take a 7 1/2" board. I've got my meatsaw! But I would have to un-bury that thing and make some sort of jig to help feed the board through. A better idea would be to have a mill, but I'm doing this on budget at the moment.

 

So are we all agreeing on a consensus its the table saw?   More ammo to tell the wife I want a table saw of my own!

 

I do notice one thing. I'm very confident that the brand new DIABLO blade is true. But when I run it on the table saw, I do notice a slight bit of wobble to it. So that leads me to think there is something up with the motor/arbor, etc...

[JAG1]

Anthony, I'm in the same time zone you are in. I'm in the pac N.W. also. You can call  up till about 9 pm.

 

I use diablo blades all the time. They are never actually all 100% true in their rotation which is normal. It has something to do with the stresses released in the wood as you are cutting makes the blade get hot and start to vere off course.

 

Hemlock is very bad for that problem. It is a lot more white in color than all other woods and has loads of stresses inside it. when cut it warps almost immediatly. Even lesser grades of Fir if it is with a bad center cut out of the tree can be bad. It's getting harder to find a stick of lumber thats a quarter sawn piece and not out of the center of the tree.

 

It's too bad you could not start with 1x8 cedar lumber. It has much better manners for what you are planning to do.

 

Are you anywhere near Portland?

[joecool911]

Ripping 8" stock will require cutting from 2 sides with a 10" table saw. Hemlock I scrappy wood. Weird grain and not very structural. Douglas fir is better. Pine is what most bee boxes are made of and pretty cheap wood.

[MoparMom]

Hex!  Just a note in agreement with Jag1...Mike and I have tried to reach you several times and your phone does not put us through.  I've got the same complaint Jag1 has.  Look how many people are trying to reach you are left out in the cold.   Fix that sucker...your friends are calling.    Love Moparmom

[hex0rz]

Anthony, I'm in the same time zone you are in. I'm in the pac N.W. also. You can call  up till about 9 pm.

 

I use diablo blades all the time. They are never actually all 100% true in their rotation which is normal. It has something to do with the stresses released in the wood as you are cutting makes the blade get hot and start to vere off course.

 

Hemlock is very bad for that problem. It is a lot more white in color than all other woods and has loads of stresses inside it. when cut it warps almost immediatly. Even lesser grades of Fir if it is with a bad center cut out of the tree can be bad. It's getting harder to find a stick of lumber thats a quarter sawn piece and not out of the center of the tree.

 

It's too bad you could not start with 1x8 cedar lumber. It has much better manners for what you are planning to do.

 

Are you anywhere near Portland?

 

Duly noted! I'm nowhere near Portland. Im in N. ID. Its 130am here. Just got back from having a date night with the wifey!

 

I figured it had to be something about the wood itself as well. I believe I picked out doug fir and not hemlock. I was warned by some beekeepers on another forum about using hemlock... I believe I picked out #2 grade red fir. I may try sourcing out some cedar as time goes on as we have alot of cedar around this area. I may be able to get my hands on some butts or culls.

 

Ripping 8" stock will require cutting from 2 sides with a 10" table saw. Hemlock I scrappy wood. Weird grain and not very structural. Douglas fir is better. Pine is what most bee boxes are made of and pretty cheap wood.

 

Back in the Spokane area, its full of that nasty pine! Growing up, I always and still do despise the pine! Sucked raking the needles, sucked burning it, and sucks looking at it. I guess it may be useful in some furniture building...

 

Hex!  Just a note in agreement with Jag1...Mike and I have tried to reach you several times and your phone does not put us through.  I've got the same complaint Jag1 has.  Look how many people are trying to reach you are left out in the cold.   Fix that sucker...your friends are calling.    Love Moparmom

 

Wait, I don't even ever remember giving my phone number out? lol! PM me about this if you can...

 

 

 

On a side note, I got the wife to let me spend some money on a new table saw. Its something we can say that it is ours and don't have to worry about having one. I've read reviews on it and its pretty good for the money:

 

http://www.portercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=31462

 

Heres to hoping it gives me many many years of good use out of it!

[hex0rz]

Alright fellas! Got the saw home and put it together! I'm really impressed with the saw! It even came with a 40T ripping blade that I used instead and it does REALLY well!

 

Yep, I think the saw is a keeper! Its got a 3.5" cut depth at 90 degrees and I can rip my wood down and split it on the last pass! Its got a good enough finish after ripping it that I do not think I would need a planer. If I start selling my boxes, I'll probably get one then...

 

The riving knife is a big plus too. I shoved a 2x8 through at full height and it took them pretty good! The last piece I did this with though, I think I got the blade too hot. The thermal overload kicked and stopped the saw. So on the old saw it took me like 6 passes to rip one side at a time. Now I can do it in 3! I'm going to try and be as easy on the saw as possible..

 

If anyone needs a table saw, I would highly recommend this table saw, so far!

[JAG1]

I'm glad yer on track now.

 

Watch your fingers at all times. It ain't worth it to get complacant or be in a hurry. Even if you just nick them can take long time to heal and hurts like you know what.

[Wild and Free]

My wood working tools consist of a chain saw log splitter and wood stove..................and a wrecking bar and hammer. If I want something actually built I pick up the phone. I was never blessed with the patience or skills or the desire for actually working with wood in a constructive manner.

 

I have skills nobody can match, I can cut perfect circles with a skill saw and every thing is always angled and too short when I am done. :banghead:

 

I tended bees in high school for an FFA project for a few years and liked it very much, I think I ran about a dozen hives with supers, we raised a lot of Canola, sunflowers, flax and alfalfa and had lots of clover all over the country side here. I have thought of getting back into it as well on a small scale. Have fun with it.

ND has been the united states leader in honey production for many years.

[hex0rz]

I'm glad yer on track now.

 

Watch your fingers at all times. It ain't worth it to get complacant or be in a hurry. Even if you just nick them can take long time to heal and hurts like you know what.

 

  Yes! Its very satisfying to have a working table saw this will do the job that I want it to! Definitely, being that I have a good construction background, the use of power tools is nothing new to me. But that never gives me a reason to cut corners. I'm surprised that with as much guff I gave my coworkers on the jobsites that they did not start calling me Mr. Safety!

 

Funny you mention that. Had a coworker on a job that came back from the weekend to find out he almost cut two of his fingers off using his table saw at home! It was pretty bad even after he was able to take his bandages off!

 

Had a kid in school that almost had all his fingers severed off on one hand trying to fix a chain on a pit bike once. That looked pretty bad too! Ugh, I could not imagine the type of pain that would produce after the adrenaline wore off!

 

My wood working tools consist of a chain saw log splitter and wood stove..................and a wrecking bar and hammer. If I want something actually built I pick up the phone. I was never blessed with the patience or skills or the desire for actually working with wood in a constructive manner.

 

I have skills nobody can match, I can cut perfect circles with a skill saw and every thing is always angled and too short when I am done. :banghead:

 

I tended bees in high school for an FFA project for a few years and liked it very much, I think I ran about a dozen hives with supers, we raised a lot of Canola, sunflowers, flax and alfalfa and had lots of clover all over the country side here. I have thought of getting back into it as well on a small scale. Have fun with it.

ND has been the united states leader in honey production for many years.

 

I've never been much of a person to do woodwork, but I sure do like building things! I ran out of wood last night using the saw and was pretty bummed out! I got into a pretty good flow putting the boxes together.

 

I was just watching a video last night that gave numbers on honey production in ND! I was shocked! I'm not sure if I would want to ever pursue doing honey in ND. I'd probably look at doing pollination if anything. But hey, if I have that much capital to do pollination, I'd probably be doing the honey thing, too!

 

http://www.honey.com/newsroom/press-kits/honey-industry-facts

[LiveOak]

Wow!  Can't believe I missed this thread.  At the risk of reviving a dated thread, I would like to see some pics of how you rip a 2 x 8 into an approximate 1 x 8.  

 

Normally it has been my experience since a deep brood box is 9 5/8" tall, the starter stock must be a 1 x 12 that gets ripped down to the proper height.  If you use an 8" tall box, a deep frame will be too long and a medium frame will be too short. 

 

In my experience, the best wood for bee hives is Cypress if you can find it.  I live not far from an Amish man who has his own saw mill and mills Cypress from logs he gets trucked in from Arkansas.  His price is such that I just cannot make them for the price he does so I buy them in bulk from him and was assembling them myself until I realized that he charged $1 to assemble the boxes.    In fact, I was building my own frames and boxes until I realized that he was charging $36 for a Cypress deep brood box filled with 10 frames and bees wax foundation. 

 

If you care to make a long drive and stock up, you can get Cypress deep brood boxes unassembled for $11 each.  The finger joints are already cut.  You just need glue and nails or screws.    I realize the distance is probably not practical but at least should give you an idea of what they go for if you can find some Amish or Mennonites in your area. 

[hex0rz]

Wow!  Can't believe I missed this thread.  At the risk of reviving a dated thread, I would like to see some pics of how you rip a 2 x 8 into an approximate 1 x 8.  

 

Normally it has been my experience since a deep brood box is 9 5/8" tall, the starter stock must be a 1 x 12 that gets ripped down to the proper height.  If you use an 8" tall box, a deep frame will be too long and a medium frame will be too short. 

 

In my experience, the best wood for bee hives is Cypress if you can find it.  I live not far from an Amish man who has his own saw mill and mills Cypress from logs he gets trucked in from Arkansas.  His price is such that I just cannot make them for the price he does so I buy them in bulk from him and was assembling them myself until I realized that he charged $1 to assemble the boxes.    In fact, I was building my own frames and boxes until I realized that he was charging $36 for a Cypress deep brood box filled with 10 frames and bees wax foundation. 

 

If you care to make a long drive and stock up, you can get Cypress deep brood boxes unassembled for $11 each.  The finger joints are already cut.  You just need glue and nails or screws.    I realize the distance is probably not practical but at least should give you an idea of what they go for if you can find some Amish or Mennonites in your area. 

 

Hey, way to revive this! It is that time of year again, making boxes for the bees! I make frames too! It is simple, really. To rip it into 1x's. I use 2x8's cut the wood down to 6 5/8's and the rip it in half. Voila, 2 1x8's! And even at a dimensional lumber size! Well, within a 1/16th or so because of blade kerf. It is time consuming to do on the table saw, though.

 

Around here, pine and fir is the common species. I use fir on all my wood ware. I have looked long and hard trying to find a place cheap enough to just buy the wooden ware from and have yet to find one that can beat my price. Labor unincorporated of course... I did find a semi-local place near me that can break even with me on frames though! I just have to assemble them.

 

Mennonites are huge in my area, but have not seen many people locally that do bees stuff. There are a couple people that I do and have seen running around occasionally with bees.

 

Most of the time it also has been a problem of not enough money to buy equipment. The paradox is that you either have enough money and no time or vice versa. Recently, it has become the latter. More money than time, but I still enjoy building. I have the equipment to build boxes now and actually picked up a jointer machine to use so I can make boxes out of all the pallet wood I have. I get really good stacks of pallets at work for free. Just use a sawzall to cut the wood and I find that one pallet can typically make one box! Joint the edges of the pieces, secure them together with wood and glue, rabbet the ends and glue/staple them. Its just an experiment to see how much and how quickly I could make a box from pallet wood. If it don't work out, I hear there is a really good wood project on the internet for making flooring with pallet wood!

[IBMobile]

My neighbor works for a fence company and gets me used 1x6x6 or 1x8x6 ceder fence boards that I use to make compost bins. Try to find used material to cut cost. 

Edited November 20, 2014 by IBMobile