Edge Comp: Dropped from 5x3 to 5x2

[Mopar1973Man]

Yea. As of today I had to drop my sub-level again. Getting to smokey as summer time started coming on and noticing more and more smoke as I would be towing and/or launching with a heavy foot. I'm wondering if others have notices anything like this with warmer weather? No ill-effect to MPG's at all but the smoke level is slightly higher now than was during the winter time. I'm also wondering is the injectors changing for like a break in process and flowing more?

[MnTom]

Can't say as I have ever heard injectors getting broke in and flowing more. Sounds more like warmer air being less dense to me. You must have been running on the edge of smoky in the cooler weather and with the warmer weather it went just a bit smokier.

[Mopar1973Man]

Like all winter 5x3 the injectors barely hazed but now 5x2 its a light haze and 5x3 lays down a good strong black cloud. Just really odd...

[ABennin]

I agree with MnTom.  I have noticed this too.  More so since I got rid of HX35.  It will smoke more when it is above 55-60 out.  When it is warm and I drive normal, I shift before 2000 rpms and have no smoke.   Get on it and there is a fair amount if I shift at the same points.  When don't want smoke and am in hurry, I will rev it out to 2500ish before I shift.  When it is colder out it don't really matter much. 

[mopartechnician]

Warmer air has less o2. So in a nut shell means running richer

[Mopar1973Man]

Warmer air has less o2. So in a nut shell means running richer

 

When I did the calculation on this back in the winter time the difference is like 2-3 PSI difference from 0*F to 100*F so the change in 0² isn't that much. No different that going from sea level to about 5,000 feet. I'll see about find my air density calculator again.

[TFaoro]

Could another factor be warmer fuel flowing easier and a bit more is getting into the cylinder? Just thinking out loud!

[MnTom]

When I did the calculation on this back in the winter time the difference is like 2-3 PSI difference from 0*F to 100*F so the change in 0² isn't that much. No different that going from sea level to about 5,000 feet. I'll see about find my air density calculator again.

I don't quite go along with this. My truck will smoke like a freight train by the time I get to about 4000 feet.......Especially with a boost leak!!

[Yankneck696]

Speaking of boost leaks.... Have you checked?

Ed

[diesel4life]

Funny you mentioned this because I have been noticing the same thing. I was putting along at a slow pace yesterday on a side road checking out field conditions and a car came up on me out of nowhere so I got on it to get up to speed a little. Convertor was locked in 3rd at about 30 mph with virtually no boost and I all but blacked out the guy in the fancy Camaro behind me. Not only did I piss him off for driving slow I also pissed him off for filling his car up with soot!! He went flying around me and gave me a dirty look, like I did it on purpose. Oops!

Like you I'm going to hook the Smarty up and tweak the settings a touch to clean it up. Shoot, I finally pulled my 200* stat yesterday and swapped it back for the 190*...summer is finally upon us.

[Mopar1973Man]

Like here today its high of 53*F and raining. But yesterday its 90-95*F.

 

A whole 0.0046 lbm/ft3 difference I really doubt the air density difference. I get more change in air density in elevation that I do in temperature.

 

 

[mulcher812]

Well it happened to me today as well. Edge set at 5x5 and Smarty on lvl4. Cruising down the highway at about 67 everyone slowed down and as I did also got down to about 55ish and traffic cleared up everyone speed up as I rolled on the throttle I blacked out 3 lanes of traffic with out even trying. So I dropped down to 5x4 then it happened again so I dropped it down to 5x3. So now I'm just as confused

[Mopar1973Man]

Even with the colder weather I'm still seeing smoke on 5x3 and 5x2 is a bit cleaner but not always. I'm starting to wonder if something about the fuel has changed.

[AH64ID]

At least on my truck there is a noticeable difference in smoke from sea level to 5,000 feet, as there is also an increase in hot weather.

 

Remember the old 3% hp loss per 1K feet elevation change based on oxygen content on NA motors?? Well there is going to be some effect on turbo motors at low boost, but minimal loss at high boost. So if the oxygen content from 0° to 100° is equivalent to 5,000 feet that's about 14.2% reduction in hp on a NA motor, or a low boost forced induction motor.

 

Is your mpg fooler set on a fixed number? I notice more smoke, for a given smokey tune, as the IAT's increase more so than ambient.

[Mopar1973Man]

So how about 1,821 feet at Riggins, ID? Or even lower yet at 1,581 feet at Whitebird. Even my place is barely 2,800 feet. Elevation this is low.

 

MPG fooler is just setting the IAT to 143*F so even turning it off I'm seeing true number but on warm days I can float as high as 120-130*F when I was noticing the smoke. But now with colder temps I'm down to 80-90*F IAT's. Still fooler on or off the smoke level still high.

 

Actually a little secret if you turn over to 6 Cylinder mode its a smoke switch. Dropping the IAT colder and ECT colder produces a healthy cloud. (Just letting you all know I've played and looking for other causes). This is not it.

 

As for another odd thing noticed yesterday hauling back with firewood. I've got 8 miles of full time exhaust brake usage and about another 6 of part time exhaust brake usage from my cutting hole to the highway. By the time I get to the steep part of the grade and the EGT's are really low 200 or so. I start to notice a haze of blue smoke only when the exhaust brake is used. Then once I hit the highway I see one poof of blue and then it turns black and gone never to seen again. This has me thinking injectors for some reason.

[Ilikeoldfords]

Well you did put new injectors in recently didnt you? Like in the last year or so? Maybe that is why you are just now seeing it. New injectors for this spring might run differently than your last ones last spring.

Just putting ideas out there.

[Mopar1973Man]

Exactly... I did change injectors. About a year ago. I found my post back in April of 2013 install the +50HP injectors.

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/index.php?/topic/6732-back-to-stock-injectors-for-a-short-time/

[AH64ID]

So how about 1,821 feet at Riggins, ID? Or even lower yet at 1,581 feet at Whitebird. Even my place is barely 2,800 feet. Elevation this is low.

 

 

 

I know on my truck every 1K feet make a difference in smoke and EGT's.

 

My truck runs very cool where I live at 2700', but it runs cooler at sea level for the same ambient temp.

 

So if 100°F is good for 5K feet of change, what does 50°F increase do at 2K feet?

 

 

 

As for another odd thing noticed yesterday hauling back with firewood. I've got 8 miles of full time exhaust brake usage and about another 6 of part time exhaust brake usage from my cutting hole to the highway. By the time I get to the steep part of the grade and the EGT's are really low 200 or so. I start to notice a haze of blue smoke only when the exhaust brake is used. Then once I hit the highway I see one poof of blue and then it turns black and gone never to seen again. This has me thinking injectors for some reason.

 

 

My guess is that you are pushing a little oil out of the turbo seal, and under normal exhaust braking you won't notice it but on a braking session that long it's showing up.

 

I highly doubt it's injectors they are supposed to be firing 0, zip, zilch fuel while exhaust braking with a warm engine.

[Mopar1973Man]

That's what I thought. (Thanks for verifying! ) Injectors remained closed and not firing a drop. But its blue smoke like cold cylinder temps would. As for the turbo still wonder how that could be happening too. If the drive pressure is spiked out during the downhill run and the oil pressure should nearly match pressure (unknown no mechanical).

 

Think I'm just over thinking the whole thing...  No issues with oil loss lately still full. No loss in MPG's either still good and strong.

[AH64ID]

Blue smoke is generally oil, white is cold cylinder temps, and black is excess fuel.

 

I would say you are overthinking it.