Looks like I may have lost ANOTHER Vp-44.... looking for options and ideas

[FlatTwin]

Well folks, for the 3rd time in 4 years my VP-44 is throwing codes. Both the PO216 and P1698 now... Was hard to start for a bit but now thats cleared up but its now smoking badly when I put my foot into it and thought I saw some white smoke while driving it home yesterday. 

 

This is after I spent over $1000 to help prevent this from ever happening again. An Air Dog 165 fuel pump with dual filters along with the Vulcan big line kit from the tank to the VP pump, as well as an Edge W/Attitude to monitor the fuel pressure and an alarm should the fuel pressure ever get below 15 psi. The fuel pressure has never gone below 12 psi (it usually sets at 18-19 psi) and the filters have been changed several times in the last year. 

 

To tell the truth I am at the point of about being ready to sell the truck and go with something else. I simply cannot afford $1000 for a new/overhauled VP every year. Added to that I cannot have the thing strand me out on the road somewhere. Love the Cummins, like the truck but if its not reliable then its not for me. 

 

Now I bought this last VP from what I was told was a reliable pump place and they told me that they would "stand behind their product" for the full 12 month warranty, but "should anything happen in the 13th or 14th month, we will take care of you" (and I have that in writing).... Well I was two weeks over the 12 month time period and he just emailed me back saying "the warranty is 12 months, your coverage is done!" ... Great service isnt it? I just love liars... 

 

His idea of "standing behind his product" was telling me to either "PPump or VE pump" the engine and that he would be happy to buy the old VP core from me. 

 

I have seen several posts on the PPump conversion but never heard of a VE pump conversion for my 24 valve engine. I simply cannot afford the $2500 costs that everyone says it costs on the PPump conversion, plus what I can see its a pretty involved process. As well I am working out in the  open in the driveway of my house so am not going to be able to yank the entire front end of the truck apart and leave it setting like this for weeks. The homeowners group would not let that happen... I can change a VP in 5-6 hours and they are fine with that but there are limits. 

 

Any suggestions or ideas? Or should I just put another overhauled VP on the truck and get something newer that does not have a VP on it?  Or is it time to buy a Power Stroke and be done with it? Friend of mine has a 7.3 Power Stroke with 300,000 miles on it and the original injection pump... 

 

Thx Joe

Edited September 30, 2014 by FlatTwin

[FlatTwin]

Also, anyone have any ideas on how to tell how much longer I have before this thing dies all together? I have some things that I need to get done with the truck and do not want to be stranded... 

 

Thx, joe

[diesel4life]

Who did you buy your pump from? The problem is there are still shops bench testing the PSG on the VP44 and if it passes your getting someone eelse's used PSG with unknown mileage and it's a driving time bomb. There are only a handful of shops I would trust to buy a VP where they are sourcing their pumps from a reputable reman shop.

[diesel4life]

Also, did you reset the codes to see if they come back? Check for any leaks in the intake and CAC piping? What's your oil look like? Any sign of fuel contamination?

[mopartechnician]

And this is why people are getting rid of their 2nd gens.I am more than happy to get rid of mine because you are always worried about stupid stuff going wrong and it often does.

Ive seen a pickup throw a 0216 and last another 100,000. Check all your grounds and make sure you are getting a good charge. Also check your connections at the vp and the ecm.

You need to say the name of the company so nobody else gets burned by them

Edited September 30, 2014 by mopartechnician

[diesel4life]

The problem is people either don't educate themselves on what their buying or they want to go the cheapest route and buy the cheapest injection pump they can find and wonder why their in the same boat a year or two down the road. The VP44s have actually proven to be very reliable once the initial glitches were worked out but a reman pump is only going to be as good as the builder. Mine has been all over the country east of the Mississippi (and a few places west of it too) and of the 2 VP trucks I've owned and accumulated 250+k miles I've never been stranded.

[FlatTwin]

JR, 

 

Please tell all of us where we can buy a new VP-44? They simply are not available...  The last pump I bought was from Jacob at Diesel Auto Power, supposedly a great seller. Pump died at 13 months... they would not even talk to me... would not even answer my emails. This was June of 2012. Then Sept 2013 I went to this new place as a 35 year friend of mine (Ford F250 owner) raved about how great this guy and shop was. Paid $1112 for the pump, hardly the cheapest one on the market. 

 

My friend called to see if he could do any good and the guy was friendly but "its been 12 months, the warranty is over" so he is also perturbed at the seller. 

 

I am an aircraft mechanic so pretty good with electrics. Got tired of the 12 year old stuff a while ago and replaced the cable ends with marine lugs and new battery terminals with wing nut fasteners. In the old days turn the key on and the voltage was 12 and change. Fire the engine up and idle it would go to 12.9 or so then finally 13.5 while running. It was just fine... Now with the new terminals and lugs its at 12:5 when I turn the key on and the second the truck starts the voltage goes up to 13.6 and stays there. Its MUCH better now and power is totally stable. 

 

Will check the connections but they were fine the last time I looked... and have deleted the codes and tried again but they keep coming back. Will try again...

 

JR I want what you have, a reliable truck that when taken care of does not break down. I do maintenance before its needed, not after things break yet after wasting so much money trying to get a reliable VP44 it pukes again. 

 

Would love to have someone give me an option I can afford (like Mike) but I cannot do the PPump, its just too much $$ and I have no place to do it in. 

 

Thanks guys...

 

Joe

Edited October 1, 2014 by FlatTwin

[diesel4life]

I was referring to the PSG (computer) on the VP. It is imperative to buy a pump with a new PSG, many manufactures use reman and a few offer new PSG. And then there are still a few shops out there that bench test the PSG that comes in on the core VP and if they pass they get used. At least this was still the case as of a year ago with one of the bigger diesel performance parts vendors. I meant nothing toward you in general when i made the remark about people buying cheap pumps, sorry if it came off that way. The pumps themselves are mostly similar as they have to be reman according to Bosch specs but where some places skip corners is the PSG. Since that is the main cause of VP failures it is important to be sure you are getting a new PSG. I am not sure what DAP sells but I'm sure they are good pumps, I'm sorry your having the string of failures you are. That's a tough pill to swallow. At that time frame and being so close to the warranty it's too bad they won't work with you. One of the reasons I went with Blue Chip. Yes his pumps are the most expensive on the market but at less than 3% failure rate you never hear of a failure from them. In most cases it is the last pump you will ever buy.

[JAG1]

Have you kept the 2 stroke oil in every tank?

 

I have been running on the 0216 code for about 3 years now and carry an extra VP and tools in the truck. Still, I hope it doesn't leave me in a bad spot someday. I noticed other drivers are not slowing down when you close to the side.

[FlatTwin]

Michael, 

 

I put two stroke motor oil in EVERY tank of fuel no matter where I get it or how long its been. My VP has not lacked from lube and between that and all the extra pumps, filters and fuel pressure gauges really perturbs me that its dying again...

 

JR,

 

Thanks and no problem... well I might have to look at Blue Chip again... I simply cannot do this again... 

 

Thx,

 

Joe

[diesel4life]

p1698- No bus message from TCM (transmission control modual)

Is this the code you got, or was it a 1693? It's odd you got 2 codes totally unrelated to each other at the same time...

Do you have any drivability issues associated with this code? (Irregular shifts, no OD, etc) This says to me there has to be a poor connection or ground somewhere.

How many miles on your VP? 0216 shouldn't be showing up on a low mileage unit.

[JAG1]

JOE, you have it in writing the he would cover you into the 13th/14th mo. You should, at the very least, file a small claims complaint against him if he won't honor his written contract with you over warranty. That's fraud and in a fraudulent case you are eligible for punitive damages beyond what the VP costs you.

I think you should tell this guy you have him over a barrel or else.... Also tell him you are going to blab his tactics all over the net if he does not do what he said he would do for you that's in witting.

However, wherever the new VP comes from, you also want assurance that it has a new PSG. Assuming that means the small electronics on top of the VP. This guy has probably gotten rich off his b.s. and needs a wake up call.

Have you checked the ground connection that is behind or near the starter motor? I just heard about that one. Plus check for continuity on the alternator ground thru the mounting bracket. Just shootin' from the hip on this....

Edited October 1, 2014 by JAG1

[CUMMINSDIESELPWR]

have you tested for AC noise?

[FlatTwin]

have you tested for AC noise?

Randy, 

 

Thats a new one for me. What type of noise are you referring to? If its Air Conditioning mine works fine but have no idea how that would effect the VP44... 

 

Joe

[FlatTwin]

JR, 

 

Codes that I have right now are listed above. I have been having a "Camshaft sensor" issue for a long time now and lose the tach reading fairly often. Can live without that as its a bear to get to and change.

 

Michael, 

 

I totally agree and thats my next step. I am going to give the seller one last chance to do the right thing and if not then go after him in any manner I can legally do. I am even a friend of his on his company Facebook page and thats the first place I would post, then every diesel board I am a member of and finally take him to small claims court. Problem is that he is on the East coast and I am in Arizona... is that allowed? 

 

Agree with you on the electronics... or do I just get another VP and sell the truck... just not sure. Am so perturbed at this situation.

 

Thx,

 

Joe

[JAG1]

Not sure on this but, you might be able to file a claim in your own state making him have to travel there. Another plus for your side, esp. if the warranty was issued and the VP was sent to your current state of Arizona.

[TFaoro]

Mopar man might know this better, but I thought the cam sensor could throw some wacky codes, make hard starts and other things that seem similar to a dying VP. AC noise is an alternating current coming out of the alternator. Small levels are ok, but higher levels are not. Here is the how to 

[JAG1]

Not sure but, if you can file a claim in your state that's another plus for you since it would cause him to have to travel. I would think making the claim in Arizona would work since he sent the VP and written warranty to your state.

The excessive ac noise (house type current) as opposed to dc type current affects computers and sensors if it exceeds a certain level due to noise from the Alternator. This often occurs when diodes start to go inside your alternator.

You need an expensive volt meter to test for it as most cheaper ones cannot detect it properly. A Fluke volt meter is real good... you hook up to the back of the alternator, the big lug/ wire on the back with positive test lead and the other test lead goes to negative on the battery. Setting the volt meter to AC house current and starting the engine. Watch wires , your hands and everything else that can get caught in the belt. It's dangerous is why most guys just do the test at the two battery posts instead. AC should read no higher than 0.1, if that is correct. Hopefully someone will chime in and verify this.

[Mopar1973Man]

AC should read no higher than 0.1, if that is correct.

 

Correct.

 

Normal alternator should be roughly 0.01 to 0.02 AC Volts. AC noise tend to burn up transistors and diodes that where designed for DC power. This creates excessive heat and things start to fail and burn up. Also PCM and ECM can fail from the same problem.

 

Another version...

[Dieselfuture]

Well folks, for the 3rd time in 4 years my VP-44 is throwing codes. Both the PO216 and P1698 now... Was hard to start for a bit but now thats cleared up but its now smoking badly when I put my foot into it and thought I saw some white smoke while driving it home yesterday.

This is after I spent over $1000 to help prevent this from ever happening again. An Air Dog 165 fuel pump with dual filters along with the Vulcan big line kit from the tank to the VP pump, as well as an Edge W/Attitude to monitor the fuel pressure and an alarm should the fuel pressure ever get below 15 psi. The fuel pressure has never gone below 12 psi (it usually sets at 18-19 psi) and the filters have been changed several times in the last year.

To tell the truth I am at the point of about being ready to sell the truck and go with something else. I simply cannot afford $1000 for a new/overhauled VP every year. Added to that I cannot have the thing strand me out on the road somewhere. Love the Cummins, like the truck but if its not reliable then its not for me.

Now I bought this last VP from what I was told was a reliable pump place and they told me that they would "stand behind their product" for the full 12 month warranty, but "should anything happen in the 13th or 14th month, we will take care of you" (and I have that in writing).... Well I was two weeks over the 12 month time period and he just emailed me back saying "the warranty is 12 months, your coverage is done!" ... Great service isnt it? I just love liars...

His idea of "standing behind his product" was telling me to either "PPump or VE pump" the engine and that he would be happy to buy the old VP core from me.

I have seen several posts on the PPump conversion but never heard of a VE pump conversion for my 24 valve engine. I simply cannot afford the $2500 costs that everyone says it costs on the PPump conversion, plus what I can see its a pretty involved process. As well I am working out in the open in the driveway of my house so am not going to be able to yank the entire front end of the truck apart and leave it setting like this for weeks. The homeowners group would not let that happen... I can change a VP in 5-6 hours and they are fine with that but there are limits.

Any suggestions or ideas? Or should I just put another overhauled VP on the truck and get something newer that does not have a VP on it? Or is it time to buy a Power Stroke and be done with it? Friend of mine has a 7.3 Power Stroke with 300,000 miles on it and the original injection pump...

Thx Joe

I've been having problems with my truck which might be related to a bad vp44 pump, I have a question for you how do you know vp is bad? Just because of codes or does it have driveability issues? Does it surge at all on highway speeds with load on engine? I'm baffled with problem I got and just don't want to throw money on unneeded parts. Thanks for any replays.