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Loss of power... Out of ideas need help.

Sean Betts
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Sean Betts

Sean Betts

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217 is pointing to the issue in my opinion. 

 

How many miles has it been driven since your ex friend did all of this? 

 

 

I would agree if the fuel was that bad that you should clean your injectors, or pony up for a new IP and injectors if that doesn't work, but I would ensure you sort out the po217 code first. 

Total miles ~3,000 in last 24 months. The truck has so little power it's just about unusable.  

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Sean Betts

Sean Betts

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Do you have a prefilter to protect the lift pump?

An after market filter that you install before the lift pump, is an important add on to your truck. Without a prefilter, I would inspect/ test the lift pump for reduced flow or clogs.

Also the factory fuel filter gets quit a bit of junk trapped down in the bottom. You can see it when you lift the filter cartridge out. I tape some small tubing to my shop vac and suck that out once in a while. In your case there might still be a lot of stuff in there.

You'll need to also drop the tank as there are screen type filters inside and on the fuel module bottom. You'll need to clean those, but,best to get rid of those all together, they afford no access and caused many owners a visit to the dealer.

You'll need a good prefilter as it's really not an option. A diesel engine and it's lift pump has to have one.

 

I forgot to mention... After loaning it to the ex-friend....  In part of my troubleshooting.  I changed the lift pump again "still stock". Then I added gauges. At idle 20 PSI under heavy load, pressure would drop to 1 PSI. Too low for the VP. So I added a 2nd high volume rotary pump to the frame. Running 25-27 psi Idle cold and 10-12 PSI under heavy load.  It's a getto set up but it is cheap and works.  

 

After all the other troubleshooting and still having no power...  I pulled off the bed and inspected the tank.  The fuel and the tank are shockingly clean. The plastic strainer in the tank was clean.  

 

As for the fuel filter. No pree-filter.  I run Wix for the normal filter. I think they are rated at 5 microns? 

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CSM

CSM

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If it were me, i would be flushing the fuel system starting at the tank.  Then the tank to the lift pump,  Then the filter housing.  Then the line to the pump.  

Once I was satisfied that was clean, I would reprime the pump,clear the codes and start it.  I would look for three things on startup.  More codes, hot or cold cylinders, or any abnormal rough running.  

 

Once the fuel system is clean, you can start troubleshooting further.  I would expect that a new warranty pump might be in order, and if I did a pump or if I found any crud in the post filter lines I would likely pull all the injectors and crossover tubes and make sure they are clean and not damaged as MoparMan mentions. 

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Sean Betts

Sean Betts

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I will agree with the above statements. There is probably damage to the IP & injectors. Could be the crossover tube filters, too.

You could try an APPS reset at the end of this article. http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/26-engine-systems/35-apps-sensor-replacement-procedure

Also, after doing Hurricane hill, if you are going to come through \Kanab, give me a couple days notice & I will look things over for you.

 

Ed

Ed would you mind telling me where the crossover tube filters are located?  Google was not much help for me today.  

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CSM

CSM

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The edge filters are in the tube between the injector line at the head and the injector.  

 

To pull them you pull the valve cover, loosen the injectors, lines and pop the crossover tubes out.  If you go into articles and watch the vid from Pepsi71 on changing injectors it will show you in detail. 

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Sean Betts

Sean Betts

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If it were me, i would be flushing the fuel system starting at the tank.  Then the tank to the lift pump,  Then the filter housing.  Then the line to the pump.  

Once I was satisfied that was clean, I would reprime the pump,clear the codes and start it.  I would look for three things on startup.  More codes, hot or cold cylinders, or any abnormal rough running.  

 

Once the fuel system is clean, you can start troubleshooting further.  I would expect that a new warranty pump might be in order, and if I did a pump or if I found any crud in the post filter lines I would likely pull all the injectors and crossover tubes and make sure they are clean and not damaged as MoparMan mentions. 

Hi CMS, great minds think alike.   :)  Yes I used my air compressor and blew out the lines from the lift pump back.  I inspected the inbound and return lines to the VP for any signs of crud silt or sand.  Nothing.. They were exceptionally clean.  I even caught the fuel that drains out in a glass pickle jar for inspection.  There was nothing visible even when held up to a bright light.  

 

 

Also used a Harbor Freight thermometer gun and checked the cylinders.  They were all within 50 or so degrees of each other. Tested right after start up.  Tested after 10 minutes of idle.  Tested with foot on the break simulating a medium load.  I also did this to test the integrity of my EGT gauge that I added.  

 

About the filter cleaning the mud fuel. Either my ex-friend was right... Or the 4 new filters that lasted an average of 25 miles each cleaned up the mess.  Has anyone experienced contaminated fuel?  What are the symptoms? 

Edited by Sean
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Sean Betts

Sean Betts

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I wanted to say thank you to everyone that has replied.  This is cool that you all are helping strangers out. Everyone has been really cool and helpful. I am glad that I found this group.  

 

 

Mopar1973man thank you for creating and maintaining this forum. I checked out some of your other videos on YouTube. That’s a cool hyrdo setup. 

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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I wanted to say thank you to everyone that has replied.  This is cool that you all are helping strangers out. Everyone has been really cool and helpful. I am glad that I found this group.  

 

 

Mopar1973man thank you for creating and maintaining this forum. I checked out some of your other videos on YouTube. That’s a cool hyrdo setup. 

 

That's what powers the computers here. (Green powered network here!)

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JAG1

JAG1

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Just one final point that I'm concerned over is some of the second gens have a screen filter inside a small cylindrical shaped plastic housing in line at the bottom of the factory draw straw. And you should be getting not so much pressure drop. With one factory pump oem fuel lines I would idle at 14 and could drop it to 11 mostly. Sometimes down to 7 if I really raced it. After installing 1/2 in. lines it held steady at 14-15 on the original pump moved to the frame. This proves you have a slow down in the lines/ lift pump perhaps.

 

 

With the new AirDog 100, 1/2 in. lines, I'm idling at 19 pulling down to 15 with heavy loads. VP44 likes a minimum of 14 for cooling.

 

Could the overheat code be set off by a hot VP44? :shrug:

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dorkweed

dorkweed

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I can see how "bad fuel" would FUBAR a VP44 and possibly the injectors on a 2nd gen.......................but not the cross over tubes.

 

Do the 2nd gens even have a "limp mode"????

 

Could the "bad fuel" have done something to the rubber fuel lines???  

Edited by dorkweed
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rlane547

rlane547

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Just one final point that I'm concerned over is some of the second gens have a screen filter inside a small cylindrical shaped plastic housing in line at the bottom of the factory draw straw. And you should be getting not so much pressure drop. With one factory pump oem fuel lines I would idle at 14 and could drop it to 11 mostly. Sometimes down to 7 if I really raced it. After installing 1/2 in. lines it held steady at 14-15 on the original pump moved to the frame. This proves you have a slow down in the lines/ lift pump perhaps.

 

 

With the new AirDog 100, 1/2 in. lines, I'm idling at 19 pulling down to 15 with heavy loads. VP44 likes a minimum of 14 for cooling.

 

Could the overheat code be set off by a hot VP44? :shrug:

I second this suggestion from JAG1. I just recently installed my DrawStraw I and I'm not sure how my truck was even running.  All of the screens appeared to be plugged. Cut them all out and get a prefilter installed.  The 1/2" lines will help significantly as well.

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JAG1

JAG1

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Thanks for the vote rlane547. Sometimes I think those screens are the dealers special....just to get you to go there and empty out your piggy bank.

 

A diesel engine truck isn't right unless it has a prefilter before the lift pump and a tighter micron filter before the injection pump. With all filters having access to be changed out.

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rlane547

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I forgot to mention... After loaning it to the ex-friend....  In part of my troubleshooting.  I changed the lift pump again "still stock". Then I added gauges. At idle 20 PSI under heavy load, pressure would drop to 1 PSI. Too low for the VP. So I added a 2nd high volume rotary pump to the frame. Running 25-27 psi Idle cold and 10-12 PSI under heavy load.  It's a getto set up but it is cheap and works.  

 

After all the other troubleshooting and still having no power...  I pulled off the bed and inspected the tank.  The fuel and the tank are shockingly clean. The plastic strainer in the tank was clean.  

 

As for the fuel filter. No pree-filter.  I run Wix for the normal filter. I think they are rated at 5 microns? 

If I'm not mistaken, 25-27psi is a little too high for the VP44. This is the link to the VP44 fuel pressure spec article, http://articles.mopar1973man.com/2nd-generation-24v-dodge-cummins/25-fuel-system/49-fuel-pressure-specification-for-bosch-vp44-injection-pumps.  Like it says, when you get over 20psi all you are doing is creating more heat. Based on your description, I'll be absolutely amazed if your VP44 isn't toast. If you went through 4 fuel filters that lasted only 25 miles per filter then I'm thinking that the VP44 was more than likely run for 600 miles under heavy load with less than 5psi lift pump pressure.  

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Ilikeoldfords

Ilikeoldfords

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I forgot to mention... After loaning it to the ex-friend.... In part of my troubleshooting. I changed the lift pump again "still stock". Then I added gauges. At idle 20 PSI under heavy load, pressure would drop to 1 PSI. Too low for the VP. So I added a 2nd high volume rotary pump to the frame. Running 25-27 psi Idle cold and 10-12 PSI under heavy load. It's a getto set up but it is cheap and works.

After all the other troubleshooting and still having no power... I pulled off the bed and inspected the tank. The fuel and the tank are shockingly clean. The plastic strainer in the tank was clean.

As for the fuel filter. No pree-filter. I run Wix for the normal filter. I think they are rated at 5 microns?

If you are running 2 pumps, and still getting a pressure drop of more than 10psi, I would almost say there must be a restriction somewhere. My brothers truck with stock LP and stock fuel lines only dropped about 5 psi from idle to WOT. This could be part of your problem too. If you are still using the stock fuel lines, there are a lot of places that could be plugged. The banjo fittings would be where I would start looking.

Keep in mind, I don't know if this is at all related to your power loss problem, but it is a problem that should be addressed in the future. Especially if you end up needed a new VP.

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  • 2 months later...
Sean Betts

Sean Betts

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Problem solved....  I broke down and took the truck to a local shop.  The issue was the ECU was stuck in limp mode. The shop used a higher end scanner to reset the ECU and now the truck is running like a top.  I hope that this will help others that might run into the same issue.   

 

This was the cheapest trip to a mechanic that I ever had.  

 

I found out also that I need to upgrade my lift pump.  I thought that the 2 pumps was plenty but WOT the truck is dropping down to 1-2 PSI.  

 

Thank you so much for all the help and advice.  

Edited by Sean
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