Affected VW products reportedly are programed to respond to emmisions testing with different settings than actual road use which are above the emmisions limits.  Kind of like turning off a chip.  VW has ordered a stop sales order until a fix is found...  units on the road are still legal to drive, for now. 

I have been reading some about that. Seems they have admitted to doing it. Interesting. 

A chip from the factory......................EPA sucks.

No joke.

 

I sit here and shake my head at the devices that put on these vehicles. Like my favorite is EGR valve. If you inject CO² into a fire the fire dies out. So why would you inject it into your engine intake? I know the answer why EPA / CARB add EGR valves but still in all more CO² added to the air the more fuel is required to make the same power. Being there is less air to burn it make for a inefficient burn in the cylinder no matter how you want to slice it.

 

Then add a DPF in the exhaust to create back pressure trying to collect carbon dust. Then pump excessive amounts of fuel during the exhaust stroke to burn the filter out. More fuel wasted.

 

Then AH64ID showing the stock timing table for 3rd Gen's and how nasty its laid out. Most of the table is After Top Dead Center.

 

There is nothing efficient about the newer designs...

I need not worry about this, mine is all taken care of above and beyond what even VW has admitted to  . Wife's 2014 TDI Jetta is a little more stinky now but dang the extra power and extra 5-10 mpg is well worth the smell.

It's never made sense to me. How could efficient use of fuel be dirty? 50 mpg and dirty doesn't compute in my mind.

  On 9/22/2015 at 2:45 PM, joecool911 said:

It's never made sense to me. How could efficient use of fuel be dirty? 50 mpg and dirty doesn't compute in my mind.

 

Just like Bill's rig how could it be dirtier with better MPG's? If your using less fuel then there has to be less emissions.

While the apparent actions by a manufacturer are suprizing, even shocking...  I have long marveled at emmisions requirements.  I'm old enough to remember the first smogged vehicles & that they were required to have less compression & late timing to "decrease emmisions" and that these changes resulted in less power & effiency...  and fewer mpgs.  I've read how non-smog cam grinds can get much better mpgs on our trucks.  And what does a programer or add on chip do, except alter the software or the readings the software uses to make fueling decisions.  

 

Much more sophisticated than just sensing when there's a connection to the data poort & changing settings.  I gotta wonder how anyone ever caught it?  There must be quite a story there.   

 

First discovered in Calif.  

 

"The EPA said the device senses the testing environment by analyzing a variety of data — steering position, speed, duration of engine operation and barometric pressure.

“These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure,” the agency wrote in its notice of violation to VW.

"Volkswagen admitted that the cars contained “defeat devices,” after EPA and the state air regulator demanded an explanation for the emission problems.  http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-volkswagen-probe-20150918-story.html 

Edited September 22, 20159 yr by flagmanruss

 

"Ironically, the investigation into VW’s performance began in Europe, after tests showed very different results on the road than the lab had measured. Bloomberg reports that European and American researchers allied together with the intent of actually demonstrating that American vehicles, which were supposedly built to these more stringent standards, could run much cleaner than the European cars were actually achieving. Unfortunately, the results of real-world US driving between San Diego and Seattle pointed firmly in the opposite direction. The Jetta and Passat both blew past the legal US limit by up to 35x and 20x respectively. Minimal emissions on the Jetta were 15x worse than allowed by law, whereas the Passat was 5x worse."

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/214605-vw-caught-cheating-on-diesel-emmissions-standards-ordered-to-recall-500000-cars 

Edited September 22, 20159 yr by flagmanruss

  On 9/22/2015 at 2:47 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Just like Bill's rig how could it be dirtier with better MPG's? If your using less fuel then there has to be less emissions.

That's what a logical mind would think. Disband the EPA.

  On 9/22/2015 at 6:41 PM, joecool911 said:

That's what a logical mind would think. Disband the EPA.

 

Keep going... EPA, CARB, etc. Take down most of these alphabet agencies...

I have always found it hard to understand getting fewer MPGs as better for the environment.  I think they should have a mileage factor in there, polution per mile of operation which will reward efficiency correctly. 

  On 9/22/2015 at 8:53 PM, flagmanruss said:

I have always found it hard to understand getting fewer MPGs as better for the environment. I think they should have a mileage factor in there, polution per mile of operation which will reward efficiency correctly.

Exactly! Can't tell a lot sitting at idle. But it's in the governments best interest to sell you more fuel. Taxed on the gallon. EPA and CAFE figures are in conflict. Do I sense mental illness?

I would like to see an apples to apple comparison of what the engine actually produces, emission wise, in both trims and compare them. On top of that I dont want to get called to Adolph's room. No joy there. 

EPA does not care what the mpg is...  THEY don't pay for YOUR gas.   For that matter, the EPA does not care that VP44 trucks were designed for LSD not ULSD...  they don't care if your IP gets ruined.  THEY don't pay for IPs. 

I know they dont care but i would still like to see a comparison of 2 identical vehicles, one in the EPA's trim and one in a power and mpg mode compared together.

 

For that matter they would probably like to see all the VP trucks just die.

Edited September 23, 20159 yr by dripley

California has laws now to force you to trade up to newer trucks. Our fire department is buying these California rejects for super cheap and making fire trucks out of them. I'm glad I live in Idaho away from smog testing "yet".

 

Just tell me that any vehicle emits this kind of emissions... One forest fire emits more than all the US vehicles on the road...

(Picture was shot at 12 noon)

Might be about time to go get a deal on a VW!!! Do I hear buyers market?

Goood time to invest in stocks once they get the lawsuits filed should be about rock bottom by then.

 

Also a good time for the VW after market tuner companies right now too.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/volkswagen-emissions-fix-may-not-last-long/

While one would think that less fuel used is cleaner it isn't always that way. The things that make an engine efficient are also the things that increase NOx production from combustion. In order to drop NOx you have to drop cylinder pressure and temperature and when you drop those you lose efficiency.

 

Just like looking at the fire... you have to look at the kind of emissions being made. How much NOx does a forest fire put out?

 

It is unfortunate that particulate matter and emissions do not include economy as a factor as there as to be a happier medium... i.e. dirtier per gallon but cleaner per mile.

 

I am NOT an EPA advocate but ranting should be done with correct data.

 

I think we have gone TOO far with emission requirements and even 2004 specs were a little much but I don't make the rules I just get to follow/break them.