I didnt want to mix up the threads by posting unrelated information so I figured I would start a new one.  This thread is for figuring out what works and what you find your truck likes.  

 

I did some more datalogging as of late and found that a more aggressive timing curve later in the rpm band, say 2500 + rpm, seems to pull harder up top.  Previous I was running tunes that maxed timing at 26*.  I took 2 tunes copied them and ran them back to back on the same stretch of road, same conditions.   I was not using wiretap for this so I will leave those details out

 

First Tune 29* max

Quote

Race 29*
Number of Power Levels	6
RPM Limit	3700
Valet Mode
Maximum Valet Mode Power	35
Timing Parameters
Fuel Load Timing	1
Low PSI Timing Reduct	5
Timing Reduct Scaling	80
LightThrottle Timing Adv	1
Light Throttle Limit	35
Timing Equilzer
1500RPM	16
2000RPM	19
2500RPM	24
3000RPM	27
MAX	29
Boost Level Fueling - CAN Bus
0 PSI	88
1 PSI	90
2 PSI	92
3 PSI	94
4 PSI	98
5 PSI	102
6 PSI	106
7 PSI	110
8 PSI	114
9 PSI	118
10 PSI	122
11 PSI	126
12 PSI	130
13 PSI	134
14 PSI	138
15 PSI	142
16 PSI	146
18 PSI	150
20 PSI	150
22 PSI	150
24 PSI	150
26 PSI	150
28 PSI	150
30+ PSI	150

 

Second Tune 26* max

Quote

race 26*
Number of Power Levels	6
RPM Limit	3700
Valet Mode
Maximum Valet Mode Power	35
Timing Parameters
Fuel Load Timing	1
Low PSI Timing Reduct	5
Timing Reduct Scaling	80
LightThrottle Timing Adv	1
Light Throttle Limit	35
Timing Equilzer
1500RPM	16
2000RPM	19
2500RPM	22
3000RPM	25
MAX	26
Boost Level Fueling - CAN Bus
0 PSI	88
1 PSI	90
2 PSI	92
3 PSI	94
4 PSI	98
5 PSI	102
6 PSI	106
7 PSI	110
8 PSI	114
9 PSI	118
10 PSI	122
11 PSI	126
12 PSI	130
13 PSI	134
14 PSI	138
15 PSI	142
16 PSI	146
18 PSI	150
20 PSI	150
22 PSI	150
24 PSI	150
26 PSI	150
28 PSI	150
30+ PSI	150

 

 

The interesting thing is the tunes are the same except for the timing above 2500 rpm.  If you look on the graph rpms hit that 2500 rpm mark at about line 20-21, each line is ~.3 seconds so 3 lines = 1 second.    You can see where timing jumps and also where boost jumps. 

 

Now keep in mind the graphs are not exact so take them with a grain of salt, but everything appears to show that the tune with higher timing up top gives faster time to 50 mph, and a faster ramp up of boost.  The higher timing tune appeared to reach 50 mph nearly 1 second faster.

 

as always studs are a good idea, but I am fairly sure anyone can run this timing above 2500 rpm.    If people are not blowing their heads off left and right with other tuners then there is no reason why this type of timing curve will hurt with the Quadzilla. 

 

 

Food for thought, open to other thoughts.

22 hours ago, Dodgeih said:

I can see that side too, but it's not that much different than the same Joe Blow that wants to run 300 horsepower injectors on his otherwise stock vp44 truck with no lift pump or upgrades of any sort. That happens almost daily

 

I can tell you right now Weston will not sell to them.

 

17 hours ago, rogerash0 said:

Don's f1 220hp injectors in my truck with a 2-300rpm lower than stock stall converter (see firepunks site) will stall my truck when put into reverse when cold. I throw it into first, then reverse, and it won't stall. Typically just needs to do that once unless it's real, real cold.

 

Don likes 7x.010 nozzles. If you let it run for a few min it should take care of the stalling without having to pull the injectors.

14 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

I can tell you right now Weston will not sell to them.

Yeah, you're probably right, but with that being said, the seller could help the buyer decide if a higher pop is needed, acceptable for the application and ultimately decide if they are willing to sell to the buyer, just like many do now.. Just like most tuners won't sell a 250hp tune to a guy with a stock truck, although it can add more confusion and make it more difficult, especially in an industry that everybody already knows everything...

@jlbayes

another off the wall theory I have been thinking about.   We all accept that increasing pop decreases duration.  therefore when the ECM reacts to something, stalling, the resulting commands should be "dampened"...Correct?    IE if the ecm thinks it needs to spike fueling by %20 to keep the truck alive, the resulting fuel spike might only be %18 if pop is significantly increased. 

 

So say I am correct in thinking that the stall issue is actually related to the sharp pull in fuel after the first increase in fueling as a result of being put in gear.   ( my above post step 5)

 

The increased pop should actually help keep the motor alive.  Now this would only be the case when injectors are big enough to cause that first spike.  

 

 

 

I can't get past that my truck does not stall when put in gear.  I tried to force it to stall this morning when I started.  It was less than 20*f when I started this morning.  I gave it less than 3 seconds from running to going into R with the tail of the truck uphill.  No brake, let it just catch 4.
 

For those interested, I just ordered 7x.013" vco set to 340 bar thanks to @dieselautopower

2 minutes ago, Dodgeih said:

especially in an industry that everybody already knows everything...

 

Isn't that the truth. LOL

 

Nick you are kind of hitting on it but still skirting it. You are missing the roi of the nozzle increase. Takes less time to inject the same amount of fuel. Ecm will over or under shoot as it does not really know you increased the nozzle size. If you still have a stock set of injectors increase the pop.

true,  

 

wish I could figure out why I am not having stalling issues,  Maybe I am special hahaha.  

Edited December 15, 20177 yr by Me78569

Smaller injectors with higher pop. Time to find a stock set.

I have all sorts of core sets I can shim up.  How special do you feel nick...  350BAR, 400 BAR, 500BAR?  (I feel like an auctioneer)

 

Could do more than one set if one wants to install/re install....

@dieselautopower

 

The thing I want to test most is a set of matching injectors to what I have now, but stock pop pressure.  I want to know what the back to back differences are, if any. 

 

As for why my truck does not stall we would have to do a set of smaller, 75-125 injectors at higher pop and see what happens.  Is my truck "special" or is it somehow a result of being as big as the 7 x .012's are?  

 

I could honestly test injectors until the cows come home.  

48 minutes ago, Me78569 said:

true,  

 

wish I could figure out why I am not having stalling issues,  Maybe I am special hahaha.  

I think with these vp44 trucks, the biggest downfall here is no 2 are the same... I feel like the quality control was subpar. It seems like 5 identical trucks would behave in 5 totally different ways for whatever reason. There all a little "special" if you will.

I know that all to well

12 minutes ago, Dodgeih said:

I think with these vp44 trucks, the biggest downfall here is no 2 are the same... I feel like the quality control was subpar. It seems like 5 identical trucks would behave in 5 totally different ways for whatever reason. There all a little "special" if you will.

2 hours ago, Me78569 said:

Maybe I am special hahaha.  

That we already know, no ifs about it. We're all lucky you're here 

1 hour ago, Me78569 said:

 

The thing I want to test most is a set of matching injectors to what I have now, but stock pop pressure.

How do you know your current ones aren't tired and already lower on pop pressure then you think. You right you could be testing injectors till cows come home but I think there is a hole in a fence.

Someone want to fix my stalling issue ran ddp 150s 8 holes stalled when cold and my 7x10s stall when cold there is no way I'd be able to to drop my truck in to gear with out letting it idle for at least 10min high idle makes it quicker to be able to take off I have a recon low stall triple disk lmao it did make it a little better when I turned down the line pressure

1 hour ago, Dieselfuture said:

 

How do you know your current ones aren't tired and already lower on pop pressure then you think. You right you could be testing injectors till cows come home but I think there is a hole in a fence.

They have about 2k miles on them now from DAP . they are nearly new, I hope they are still popping at 330 bar

36 minutes ago, Silverdodge said:

Someone want to fix my stalling issue ran ddp 150s 8 holes stalled when cold and my 7x10s stall when cold there is no way I'd be able to to drop my truck in to gear with out letting it idle for at least 10min high idle makes it quicker to be able to take off I have a recon low stall triple disk lmao it did make it a little better when I turned down the line pressure

@jlbayes does DDP use sub stock pop pressures ?

On 12/13/2017 at 10:26 AM, Me78569 said:

@kzimmer has a stalling issue if he tries to force it to stall by blipping the throttle etc.    He can make it stall, but his wife has not told him that she has had it stall ( that's key when you consider she drives it mostly and is using the truck as a truck) .    I can make mine stall by blipping the throttle over and over.  I don't know if that is related to pop or injector size.  I never "tried" to make it stall before with the stock pop pressure.    We are missing the "constant" in our testing

It might be %100 related to pop, but we did not test using a stock setup.      Driving my truck I can promise you that you wont make it stall by trying to drive it.  

we dont have enough depth in testing to say if increasing pop is "worth it" but there is only one way to know.  Idle Hands, ya know? 

What are the real world Perks Vs Drawbacks. 

 

 

I should note that I had stalling issues with my 60 and 100 hp injectors with my built automatic when it was cold out. @Mopar1973Man can attest to this. However with the proper tuning on the smarty, I managed to have a hand full of stalls this year. But it does seem to stall more likely when shifting from forward to reverse back to forward. 

 

When It's cold out I notice the rate of stalling varies, you can start in reverse and have no issues, or put it into drive and have problems, which makes no sense since reverse line pressure is significantly higher then drive pressure at idle.

 

On 12/14/2017 at 11:44 AM, dieselautopower said:

I think anything that can be done to improve efficiency, better control over smoke and power is worth looking at. If there are many negatives then its not worth it.  Would like to offer custom pop off pressures on the website so customer can determine the pressures (option box so if they want lowered pressures for P7100 or raised for quadzilla custom tuning) it would be an option for the customer.

 

The stalling thing is also of interest.  I know people even with rv275 and tight converter that stall constantly in reverse.

 

For most people it is a moot point as they won'y do anything with it.  Curiosity has a hold on me and I want to support it.

 

 

 

I'm considering pulling you 100's and sending them to you to have them reset to 330 bar.

Nick can u raise rpm or give us a setting for idle rpm

I dont think it would help honestly.

 

Try this , enable high idle let it idle up, then drop it into gear without using brake or gas,  does it stall still?

2 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

 

I'm considering pulling you 100's and sending them to you to have them reset to 330 bar.

 

 

I am sending a set to Nick at 310 BAR.  7x.012VCO @same flow at the nozzles as what he has now.  Nick wants to see  more data on std vs higher pop off pressure.

I will get various datalogs showing as much data as possible along with videos of each setup.  

 

We should be able to compare 0-60 of each setup and see how much difference there is in power.  

 

@Carbur8tr @kzimmer  Any thoughts on what tests I should do to show pros vs cons of the increased pop?