Bought a Howard Gem rotavator over the weekend and collected it yesterday, sat nicely in the bed of the truck with the tailgate down, 

 

It was put into a shed in the 60's and never touched since, got it under cover and on trestles, turns over ok but one exhaust valve is sticking down a little, this one must have been open when it was parked

Got the cyl head off last night going to  pull the barrel and check the rings today 

Scored a set of tyres off of ebay that arrived yesterday

Engine is a 810cc Jap 4 stroke petrol, doesn't look to be the VO engine which runs on lamp oil  which I'm presuming is paraffin, all nuts/bolts are BSW sizes (time to dig all my BSW wrenches out)

2 hours ago, wil440 said:

Engine is a 810cc Jap 4 stroke petrol, doesn't look to be the VO engine which runs on lamp oil  which I'm presuming is paraffin, all nuts/bolts are BSW sizes (time to dig all my BSW wrenches out)

 

Might be my young age and inexperience but, what is BSW and since when have there been lamp oil powered engines?

 

Also that's a big motor compared to what I've seen around here.. Same cc as my brothers motorcycle.. How wide is the tilled area?   

1 hour ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

 

Might be my young age and inexperience but, what is BSW and since when have there been lamp oil powered engines?

 

Also that's a big motor compared to what I've seen around here.. Same cc as my brothers motorcycle.. How wide is the tilled area?   

BSW is British Standard Whitworth  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Whitworth   wrench sizes are bolt diameter not AF and neither metric or AF is close to most

 

Lamp oil engines were common here, the intake and exhaust on a Howard Gem that runs on lamp oil are sort of together, the petrol version has 2 gaps to isolate the heat from the exhaust, lamp oil engines were started on petrol then once warmish switched over to LO

Tractors were often the same but the fuel was called I think TVO   as in Tractor Vapourizing Oil,  used here and in Australia it's made out of paraffin or Kerosene to you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractor_vaporising_oil

Also take a look at hot bulb engines

it's a 24" tiller to a depth of 9", I used one of these rotavators before I left school at my part time job at a garden nursery nearly 50 years ago, It was used to rotavate tomato houses after cropping and a big area that was used to grow trees, these areas would be like concrete but it never struggled at all, it was the master of me that's certain 

Very interesting learn a little about stuff from your side being the old school wrenches and the lamp oil engines really cool... Thank you @wil440...

2 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Very interesting learn a little about stuff from your side being the old school wrenches and the lamp oil engines really cool... Thank you @wil440...

Good to see people interested in old stuff, I have a lot of Whitworth spanners never used them in years, Foden trucks had a lot of whitworth, where I started work from school they had a fleet of these from the late 60's still got the tools as I never throw tools out.

Checked the serial number on it and it's 1963, 1 year younger than me 

Tell you the truth I love hanging around the older people and listen to the tales and knowledge of the past. So many things I've learned from just listening to older folks tell stories about working back in the day and how they survived. Like out here most of the old timers I talk to are original families that moved here to Idaho back in 1890's when settling for land. Talk to grandmother and grandfather which were children during these times and learn about all ways. So very cool to even understand how rough it was... As for you sir my hats off to you and your knowledge as well. 

5 hours ago, wil440 said:

Bought a Howard Gem rotavator over the weekend and collected it yesterday, sat nicely in the bed of the truck with the tailgate down, 

 

It was put into a shed in the 60's and never touched since, got it under cover and on trestles, turns over ok but one exhaust valve is sticking down a little, this one must have been open when it was parked

Got the cyl head off last night going to  pull the barrel and check the rings today 

Scored a set of tyres off of ebay that arrived yesterday

Engine is a 810cc Jap 4 stroke petrol, doesn't look to be the VO engine which runs on lamp oil  which I'm presuming is paraffin, all nuts/bolts are BSW sizes (time to dig all my BSW wrenches out)

Marvel Mystery oil works wonders. Back during my Harley mechanic days this was quite common. See if you can get a old squirt oil can and direct it on the valve stem, if it doesn't free up you know whats next. 

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Tell you the truth I love hanging around the older people and listen to the tales and knowledge of the past. So many things I've learned from just listening to older folks tell stories about working back in the day and how they survived. Like out here most of the old timers I talk to are original families that moved here to Idaho back in 1890's when settling for land. Talk to grandmother and grandfather which were children during these times and learn about all ways. So very cool to even understand how rough it was... As for you sir my hats off to you and your knowledge as well. 

Me too, when I started work in 78 there were quite a few older guys in the workshop at least 2 were over retiring age which was 65 then so these guys would have been born around the time the Titanic sunk and starting work around 1930, these guys would have been easily working on stuff from the late 1800's.

I have known guys who worked on steam Rustons which were rope excavators but were steam driven, one guy I worked with operated a diesel rope excavator when I knew him but he worked steam way before, same guy same quarry he started as a pony man, ponies were used to haul tubs of granite out of the quarry which were hand loaded, quarry upgraded to a steam winder and the engine was still there when I started, he then changed jobs (same quarry) and became a "getter"  he would  drill a hole at the top of the face with a steam and later air drill and get the drill steel down a ways then tie a rope to it and over he would go with a long bar "getting " all the loose granite down, this had to be done before the next set of holes were drilled and blasted, all year, 6 or 7 days a week 

I have the shareholders meeting minutes from this quarry dated 1898, it's just up the road from where I live, I worked there from 1978 until it shut in 1994 or 95, still carried on working for the same Co just at a different site, I left in 2004 and now they have reopened the quarry where I started work.

I used to go to another quarry (same Co)  Groby Quarry maybe 8 miles away, that site had a long wooden shed close to the weighbridge, inside was a steam compressor and compressed air was piped everywhere on site, when I started it was powered by an electric motor but the steam engine was still in it's original place, after that site shut it was removed to a local museum and restored

Bit of History

 

GR - Groby & Charnwood Granite Co Ltd, Groby Granite Quarries, Leicestershire

    Opened in 1832 just to the north of the village, the first quarry at Groby was connected to the Leicester & Swannington Railway by a standard gauge line which, like the L&S, was built without Parliamentary authority. The junction at Glenfield was via a turntable into a loop siding, but in 1865 the Groby Granite Company took control and laid a conventional junction. The present quarries some distance beyond the village are a more recent development, and the line latterly was some two miles long. The original engine shed and wharf were opposite the old quarry, but a shed was later built at the newer quarries. At least ten steam locomotives (mostly Hunslet 0−4−0 saddle tanks) have worked on the line over the years, and these include a Robert Stephenson 0−4−0 tender loco dating from 1833 and an 0−4−0 vertical boiler tank locomotive which was known locally as the "Groby Coffee Pot". The two steam locos which survived until recent years and the diesel which replaced them are included in the locomotive list. In 1966 all rail traffic from Groby ceased when British Railways closed their branch from Desford to Leicester West Bridge, and all production now goes by road.

    There was also a 2ft 0in gauge system in the quarries which was of considerable length. The original locomotives were a pair of Hunslet 0−4−0 saddle tanks named JUNIOR (596 of 1893) and SEXTUS (652 of 1896). These were replaced by three Hunslet 0−6−0 saddle tanks named NONUS (992 of 1909), SEXTUS (1021 of 1910) and JUNIOR (1417 of 1921) which were scrapped after the system was abandoned in 1943 in favour of road transport.

 

Pic is Groby Quarry,  from 1962  Fowler Loco, the tipping ramp where the truck is tipping into the wagons was still there in 78

You could go into the quarry, find the stonemason and tell him what you wanted, granite kerbstone, granite cobbles for streets, dry built fireplaces, take it away and add cement and job done

1/2 way out of the quarry was a pumpmans hut, 10ft square hole 8 ft deep cut into the granite with a steam pump, one guys job to look after it, same right at the bottom

There were carpenters shops, welding shops, fitters shops etc not been used for over 20 years but just looked like everyone was on a holiday other than the dust

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

As for you sir my hats off to you and your knowledge as well. 

Well thank you

45 minutes ago, jlwelding said:

Marvel Mystery oil works wonders. Back during my Harley mechanic days this was quite common. See if you can get a old squirt oil can and direct it on the valve stem, if it doesn't free up you know whats next. 

I may have a bigger problem than the stuck valve, pulled the barrel off today and the baseplate is cracked, it has been repaired before and doesn't do much other than seal the crankcase to the barrel base, there is another gem close to me for sale so might just drop a offer on that, seller  says it doesn't turn over, or just make a new gasket and try it

Pictures of cracks

 

Now this was not leaking and the baseplate is flat

and none of the pieces are in anyway loose, probably going to make a base gasket and try it, HG is copper so with a Anneal that will be fine

Not done too much today though as the UK has just had a once in 30 year storm, 80mph winds where we are, record broken at the Needles on the Isle of Wight at 122mph, not wind like you guys get as we don't get Hurricanes, just a winter storm but a bad one at that

 

This was the whole of the UK from tip to tip and left to right, no route into South Wales as the 2 road bridges over the river Severn closed trains not running and some planes having to divert to the EU to land

On 2/18/2022 at 6:01 AM, Silverwolf2691 said:

lamp oil powered engines?

When I was a kid the farm/ranch where my dad worked had some old Farmall/International Harvester tractors that ran on what was called tractor fuel, which I believe was kerosene. Started on gas and after running switched over. I never ran any of these but did run a WD9 Super which was started on gasoline and switched over to diesel. Was a straight 6 with magneto and spark plugs on one side and injection pump and injectors on the other. 

Not exactly the same, but these stories of starting on gas and switching over reminds me of my introduction of the techniques to start an old Cat D-8 with a pony motor.  The pony was gas and was what was used to spin the diesel. Get the pony screaming and start putting pressure on a lever which used a clutch setup I believe to start turning the diesel. My dad was telling me what to do and what to watch out for. He told me to always use my foot on the lever and not my hand as leg bones were harder to break than arm bones.... WHAT!?

It was a single digit day in the middle of January. I was a year out of high school. 6'2" and 165 lbs.....yes, I was a bean pole. Well I started to engage the lever slowly and as the diesel started turning, applied more pressure to get as much power transfered to spin the diesel to life. She started chugging pretty good when all of a sudden it kicked back and launched me off the track and to the ground. My dad was laughing so hard I thought (and hoped) he'd pee his pants. He finally said, "and that's why you use you foot and not your hand."

 

 

Haven't thought about that day for a long time.....🤣😂🤣😂

1 hour ago, Royal Squire said:

When I was a kid the farm/ranch where my dad worked had some old Farmall/International Harvester tractors that ran on what was called tractor fuel, which I believe was kerosene. Started on gas and after running switched over. I never ran any of these but did run a WD9 Super which was started on gasoline and switched over to diesel. Was a straight 6 with magneto and spark plugs on one side and injection pump and injectors on the other. 

I learnt something today, while looking at the original manuals for this rotavator I was looking at the parts part and there were 2 different barrels, one for petrol/VO (vaporizing oil) and one specifically for "Lamp Oil" does say anything about what the differences are/were, if it was bought as just petrol there was just a thin gasket under the barrel, if VO there were 2 thin gaskets either side of a spacer shim to raise the barrel and  lower compression.

Here VO, TVO and lamp Oil were alternatives after the war as the gov increased taxes on petrol but not on VO/TVO/LO 

TVO here was very similar to Kerosene

57 minutes ago, Max Tune said:

Not exactly the same, but these stories of starting on gas and switching over reminds me of my introduction of the techniques to start an old Cat D-8 with a pony motor.  The pony was gas and was what was used to spin the diesel. Get the pony screaming and start putting pressure on a lever which used a clutch setup I believe to start turning the diesel. My dad was telling me what to do and what to watch out for. He told me to always use my foot on the lever and not my hand as leg bones were harder to break than arm bones.... WHAT!?

It was a single digit day in the middle of January. I was a year out of high school. 6'2" and 165 lbs.....yes, I was a bean pole. Well I started to engage the lever slowly and as the diesel started turning, applied more pressure to get as much power transfered to spin the diesel to life. She started chugging pretty good when all of a sudden it kicked back and launched me off the track and to the ground. My dad was laughing so hard I thought (and hoped) he'd pee his pants. He finally said, "and that's why you use you foot and not your hand."

 

 

Haven't thought about that day for a long time.....🤣😂🤣😂

I know a guy that has a WW2 Cat D8 that was at Omaha   beach head, he's restored it and takes it back every year for the anniversary to the very same place it landed, he's a self employed welder and has a low loader truck this also has the pony motor and he's told me it's a ~~~~~ to start

Also when I worked for Caterpillar at Desford they has one outside the offices, they "restored " it but on closer inspection they just painted it, it didn't run..... cheapskates

Got the barrel cleaned/honed and a base gasket made, note the gasket paper is MIE  

Got the valves out of the head,  cleaned, lapped them in, refitted and got the barrel and head refitted

 

Tomorrow.. adjust the valves clean and inspect the carb then see if I can get a tune out of it

Got the engine back together, intake and exhaust fitted and carb back on.

 

No spark from the mag and on pulling the HT leads off the P/O had obviously tried to clean the HT lead connectors at the mag end ( these are a short strip of copper bent around the end of the wire with a hole in it with the copper wire coming through the hole and soldered), they didn't look too closely as the centre wire was corroded as in gone and at least on one spark plug cap there is no continuity between the screw that winds down into the wire and the plug end of the cap AND in the past some clown has fitted 12k ohm resistor plugs, Mag ignition NEVER has resistor plug caps EVER

Off to find HT lead and caps which might be difficult here as everything is this carbon fibre premade rubbish now and of course I sold my huge box of HT lead/caps/boots etc about a year ago.

Might get around to seeing if it will run today .

 

Update as I never actually posted the above anyway.... got just normal plug caps and copper core HT lead and made 2 up, still no spark, I had the points and condensor out of the mag and cleaned points and regapped, this is absolute genius as there is a concentric screw just to adjust the points so the heel part is seperate and fixed the other side has one screw to hold it down and a concentric screw to adjust, simplicity in itself to adjust the gap, checked the condensor and 495MF, no specs to compare it to so ordered a new condensor.

 

New condensor arrived today 21/4, checked it and 295MF, fitted it and now there is a good spark.  Petrol in and wind it over..... the wind it over is a crank handle on the gearbox and a decompression lever, must be dogged into or onto the first motion shaft somehow, lots of bangs and spit backs and one or two were really loud but plugs not getting wet but the carb appeared to be getting flooded so stripped the Amal carb which again is simplicity, me thinks float was stuck.

Few more tries and it's running and after setting the carb as per the 1963 manual that came with it it actually runs quite good

Wouldn't go into gear as clutch plates rusted together but put it into diff lock and wound a hub backwards while in a forward gear and it freed off

Everything working as it should 3 forward gears and 1 reverse, rotors working, tiller handles moving left and right and up/down

 

One thing I found. The wheels are not actually bolted to the hubs like through holes like a car, they are on slip rings with studs/nuts and springs so you tighten the nuts fully then back off 1/2 turn and if the wheels pick anything up like stumps and it gets trapped the wheel just spins.

 

Now I need to put it to work somewhere to see how it goes..... at 810cc I'd say it will be fine...... then to decide whether to keep it or sell it 

It does run and sound really good

 Nice! Good job bringing it back to life. 

On 2/19/2022 at 8:44 AM, Royal Squire said:

a WD9 Super which was started on gasoline and switched over to diesel. Was a straight 6 with magneto and spark plugs on one side and injection pump and injectors on the other

We have a couple tractors behind the business here where I work; maybe not Allis, I think they're Farmalls...?  I may take a walk back there later and look.  I was dumbfounded when the guys brought them back to the shop.  We have guys that work here and are from out of town, so they buy these tractors to give them something to do after work before going to their apartments or the hotel.

1 hour ago, LorenS said:

I think they're Farmalls

 Love the old farmalls! We have a few here. A 1938 A, 1946 and 1947 H, 1948 M also a 1938 Massey Harris 101 and a ford 2n(don't remember the year). I enjoy using them around the farm. Nothing sounds, smells or works like an old tractor!

14 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

 Love the old farmalls! We have a few here. A 1938 A, 1946 and 1947 H, 1948 M also a 1938 Massey Harris 101 and a ford 2n(don't remember the year). I enjoy using them around the farm. Nothing sounds, smells or works like an old tractor!

Some of my first memories of tractors was riding with my grandpa on his un-styled, 1930's Allis WC.  It's still stored in the barn, I need to get my butt in gear and get it running good so I can take my boy and girl on rides before they get too old.  He's already six, so I need to move quick!

 

I always loved the sound of my dad's WD-45, so I bought one after buying some land.  I didn't realize that his had been gone through so had higher compression and more power!  I still liked mine, but didn't need a high-crop tractor to mow with.  And without a Ferguson style 3-pt it was of little use (I realize these can be added) and sold it to buy a 1968 135 Massey-Ferguson, which I decided didn't have either enough power or enough gears (was actually a non-industrial 2135, now that I think about it) so bought a Deere 2150 diesel, basically a 90's version of a 2040, still made in Germany.

 

There's something to be enjoyed about old tractors, and there's something to be said for power steering, no leaks, plenty of power, 8 gears, and synchronizers!

New points, braided HT lead and mag gaskets arrived in the week, impossible to make the mag gaskets myself as one is 1/16th or so wide and at £2.90 for both I'm not complaining, not fitted yet as got another project to deal with first

 

Still waiting for good screw on plug caps, I bought 2 in a rush made out of chinesium one lasted  3 days before it fell too bits so waiting on a pair of old style NGK caps

Put the Howard rotovator up for sale a few days ago, new owner collected it today

 

He has a plot on an allotment, here local councils have areas of land and they subdivide into plots so people can grow their own food where maybe they have not got a big enough area at home, pretty sure allotments were a by product of WW2 as here every last bit of ground had to be used to feed the nation

 

Anyway the guy has a plot on a big area so as well as sorting his bit out he says he'll be charging to do other plots 

 

He was over the moon with it, I'm now looking for another to rescue