Will the member please come forward that sent me the VP44...

i don't know if i missed it, but jasper has a pic of the "diaphragm" here: http://www3.jasperengines.com/blog/2011/12/02/jasper-remanufactures-vp44-diesel-injection-pumps/

so i think it's safe to say that yes, there is a diaphragm and yes, it can be worn out or damaged. just my

 

That must be old because the 027 Rev pump I tore down has a harden steel plate. There is no diaphragm in these pump.

 

Reading the Jasper page..they don't replace the electronics. Just reflash it.

I thought Bosch wanted all new electrics on the rebuilt pumps.

Chris

Key word JASPER. I personally have had 0% success with jasper parts. When I was in the shop we had a fleet of vehicles we maintained and the fleeting agency would send up jasper motors and not one of them lasted 10,000 miles. Had a rebuilt cat engine that made it to the highway before it dumped all the water into the oil.

I have known people to buy jasper engines and end up having to put gasket kits in them anyway because the first fluids in came right back out. On fresh rebuilds...

Reading the Jasper page..they don't replace the electronics. Just reflash it.

I thought Bosch wanted all new electrics on the rebuilt pumps.

Chris

 

Jasper's page I think is way out of date. The diaphragm is no long rubber and its a harden steel plate. Bosch requires all electronics to be replaced now. I know that DAP and Vulcan Performance both sell only new PSG's. So most of these things are now nothing more than Internet myths and tales.

Jasper's page I think is way out of date. The diaphragm is no long rubber and its a harden steel plate. Bosch requires all electronics to be replaced now. I know that DAP and Vulcan Performance both sell only new PSG's. So most of these things are now nothing more than Internet myths and tales.

If Bosch requires new PSG's, how does Blue Chip sell pumps with old computers??

A certain member on here also recently reported calling Thoroughbred Diesel on the same question and was told their remans come with used psg as well.

Chip refused to sell pumps for the longest time with used electronics because that is one of the most common failures but was recently forced into at least making it an option to be able to compete with other builders prices.

Edited March 17, 201411 yr by diesel4life

That is what Chip told me when I spoke to him about a year of more ago about who he used to rebuild his pumps. He still advertises the pumps with a used, Bosch rebuilt, or a new computer.

A certain member on here also recently reported calling Thoroughbred Diesel on the same question and was told their remans come with used psg as well.

Chip refused to sell pumps for the longest time with used electronics because that is one of the most common failures but was recently forced into at least making it an option to be able to compete with other builders prices.

 

 

Hua??

 

DAP $995 NEW PSG - http://www.dieselautopower.com/product-p/sovp44.htm

 

Vulcan $999 NEW PSG - http://www.vulcanperformance.com/Bosch-VP44-p/vp44.htm

 

BC better knock the prices down lot more to even come close. Also why would I buy a used PSG unit when I can buy NEW PSG unit for less!

 

BC - USED PSG $1196 ???

 

http://bluechipdiesel.com/products.html

Apart from Blue Chip's diagnostics, I dont really see how he can stay in the VP44 business with how low the rates are getting for a good rebuilt pump. And like said before, how is he selling them with used 'puters on the top if Bosch doesnt want any rebuilt pumps to have used 'puters?

Chip is not the only company selling used PSGs. Like I was saying earlier, he refused to go that route for the first 13 or so years of being in buisiness but his hand was more or less forced to offer the same product that everyone else offers. You have to be careful of marketing hype. What most manufacturers call a new computer is essentially a reman board. To me this is not new. Look at all the reman parts you buy over the counter these days. Most of the time they only last a fraction of the time the "new" component you replaced it with. Chip is the only builder I am aware of that offers certified used, reman, and new boards.

Chip worked closely with an engineer from Cummins and developed a few patents related to the VP fuel system. Their return rate on pumps is less than 2%. Not just while they are under warranty but the life of the pump. Those are pretty solid numbers that would be hard to beat. Then you compare warranties and their premium pumps come with warranties that are double that of all the other rebuilders I see offer.Apparently he has more confidence in his pumps than anybody else on the market. It all depends on what you want, but his entry level pumps are right in line with what the rest of the market offers In terms of quality.

Edited March 18, 201411 yr by diesel4life

Blue Chip is now bull SH** as far as I'm concerned. Chip no longer owns the company and Doug is running the place into the ground with terrible prices, service, and screwing people over. 

Edited March 18, 201411 yr by TFaoro

Blue Chip is now bull SH** as far as I'm concerned. Chip no longer owns the company and Doug is running the place into the ground with terrible prices, service, and screwing people over. The prices are not competitive, and I could see the company going under in the future.

Prices and warranty are the same as they have been for years. Doug was running the buisiness for 7 years before Chip sold out while he spent his winters down south, so that's not an accurate statement either.

Prices and warranty are the same as they have been for years. Doug was running the buisiness for 7 years before Chip sold out while he spent his winters down south, so that's not an accurate statement either.

But Chip was still there... Now that he isn't things could be slipping. I am speaking from personal experience with Doug. He was very difficult to get a hold of, never returned my phone calls, and charged me shipping for the pos pumps that went bad on me. I also speak from personal experience with 2 bad injection pumps from him in less than a month. I told Doug if he screwed me over I would never speak highly of his company, and I intend to keep that promise.

Excellent thread and learned a lot about the VP and fuel pressures. Glad that I am now running 18-20 on my system and it only dips down to 17 at WOT so no issue there.

 

Thanks guys!

 

FT

Just saw that Thoroughbred Diesel is finally releasing VP's with new electronics vs used. Not sure how much more but they just announced it today. Also come with an 18 month warranty. They still sell VP's without new electronics but the warranty is not as good. Just throwing it out there!!

Not sure what happened to this thread since it was going gangbusters with information but just kinda petered out.....but an awesome read at that.  GREAT information and it only took a decade for someone to tear down their VP instead of claiming the core fee.

 

I commend Mike for the hard work and diligent picture taking too.  Very descriptive info and even though I can see that maybe lots of this was a terrific recap of wandering data collected over the years, it was great to see it all poured out in one thread with pictures to back it up.  Not sure why the on going confusion about the diaphragm though since that picture with a C shaped disc may be an actual diaphragm but an old plastic version which was broke.  Who knows but it does look like the item called a "diaphragm" which simply separates the low and mid pressure sections of the VP.  And the original VP's did come with a weaker thin plastic diaphragm which over time was thickened up and covered in metal.....so Mike has discovered.  Yes, the chances of a diaphragm issue these days is highly unlikely if you have a remanufactued VP.

 

Really I think that the mechanical side of the VP has been resolved but it sure would be nice if we could resolve some of the issues on the computer side of this pump.  There's still just too many threads resulting in PSG issues but yet plenty of strange foriegn websites showing how we can buy new ones and replace the PSG while its sitting in the truck.  Why arent more people doing this?????  It doesnt seem like an involved task either but then again, thats me watching youtube vid's through a computer screen.  And unbeknownst to many, the VP44 was factory equipped on A LOT of other vehicles besides the ISB Cummins.

 

I still want to believe that the PSG can be dismounted from the housing and held up in some fashion away from the heat.  Even relocated to a more tempid environment would be nice.  But thats something only a few limited people have ever tried and the results are rarely discussed or even brought up.    It would seem to me that there's no reason to spend a grand on something we can fix for a few hundred and half the time it takes to remove and replace the whole unit.

Greetings,

 

Very interesting posting Michael and believe I learned a possible plan will not work.

 

 I seen a video believe post #43 and looks like you had the overflow valve removed and still read fuel pressure over 15psi.I am hoping you can answer a few questions from that experiment.
1. Was the overflow port completely open no restrictions?
2. Did you indeed have a 15+ psi reading with that port fully open?
3. Is your fuel pressure sensor reading only the restriction from VP44, not installed before a filter or some other restriction?

 

 If that is all yes then my plan wouldn't work, too much restriction inside the VP44 to control input pressure via a regulator on the overflow port (OFV removed).  And then it really hints that even at 10 psi the overflow valve is likely kept open by the internal vane pump but just a hunch as it would require another test similar to what you did but only supply 10 psi and have the OFV installed and measure the flow.

 

 Awesome thread and keep up the great work!

 

Cheers,

 

Josh

1. Yes the port is completely open.

 

2. Yes there was 15+ PSI at the time of the video.

 

3. Fuel pressure is mechanical gauge (no sensor) so that is actual input pressure to the pump.

 

The problem is you got to start the flow of fuel from the front of the pump and work your way all the way back to the rear of the pump. So now the fuel has to pass through the vane pump, then all the galleys to the rotor and then when the rotor is done then the excess fuel is sent towards the overflow valve.

isn't the main reason that valve is there..  is  to help  maintain  'pressure'  within the   system,  after all,     no pressure  can be   'made'  unless there is  a  restriction.     Sure,   fuel is  there,  but unless there is  'flow'  which  equals   cooling,   then  we all know  what  happens  when  there is too much heat..

 

Pressure  doesn't necessarily mean there is  'flow'..   I've   thought  for years  the  true health of our  fuel system  should be measured  on the  downstream (overflow)  side of the pump..  volume  mainly.     If  there isn't  any or very little  overflow,  then   one shouldn't expect much cooling to take place.

 

Bosch  would  want  a  certain amount of  residual  pressure  within  their  pumps,   to ensure   all  components  are  adequately  supported  with  airless  fuel..  so  no  component is    never  starved  for  fuel.    Vane pumps,   rotor heads,  all are designed to fill  with  fuel  at a certain  level of  pressure.(ON THE BACKSIDE)   If  they are forced  to  'pull'  fuel,  then  other  problems  surface.    This is  where  the  15 psi   check ball comes in.

 

The  overflow  kinda   handles  both  issues,     keeps  a certain amount of  pressure  within  the  pump,  allows   the  rest to return to tank.     Plus,  it  keeps fuel from draining back after shut down. (yah, yan,  I know it  takes  air  to  break the  vacuum within a  liquid  to  cause it to drain back)..

This  still    is   all dependent   of  what  the  supply  can  deliver.   

Mike  really never answered  my question  a  few months ago,  when I asked if  the vane pump  has  ANY EFFECT of  the  PRESSURE  within the  pump itself..  ie  against the overflow valve...     Meaning  in effect,   as long as there is  volume to the  intake side of  the  vp,   will the vane pump  "do the  rest"  and  take care of  the  internal pressures  and  cooling  needs  as well???    Or is  all fuel  running through the  vane pump all directed  to the  rotor head.