Well I've made it home for the summer and it's time to start tearing this thing apart. I will begin tomorrow, but yesterday I took it to the dyno. Laid down 503 / 1215. I was very pleased with the numbers, but the knocking is getting worse to it's time to take it apart.

 

Mechanical Engineering at the Colorado School of Mines. The price of everything now is crazy! The prices just keep going up.... I've got 3 years done and will graduate with my bachelors next spring, then back to school for one more year to pick up my masters. That school will be making a lot of money off of me!

Back on topic!

I got a quite a ways :stirpot:

 

Draining oil and antifreeze while removing intercooler boots and pipes

 

Pulled tires and set the front end on the ground, then removed radiator, intercooler, VP & injection lines, PS & vacuum pump, manifold & turbo, APPS, all electrical connections and electrical holders (There were a ton!), and starter.

 

Attempted to chain up with the valve cover on - No go

 

Removed valve cover, then chained up, lifted the weight off and removed the motor mounts.

 

Half way out! - That's my brother / helper

 

Finaly got it out of the truck.

 

Lots of crap to clean up!

 

Got it flipped around and set up on blocks.

 

Getting ready to remove the head.

 

Head off!

 

Head

 

Bore - Cross hatching looks good and there is no lip up at the top! Very good news. It looks almost new at 188k

 

Block

 

So that's as far as I got tonight. As far as I could tell the pistons look perfect, the bores look perfect, and I did not see any cracks in the head or valves. Also turning it over by hand there aren't any rod bearing problems. So at the moment I'm still stumped as to why the think is knocking. Maybe a cam lobe is worn?? Either way the cam will be coming out soon. If you have any idea what the knocking is post it up!

I may have missed it but describe knock and conditions it was noticeable. Could be piston pin rod bushing going bad or getting loose in piston itself. You ever pull a UOA?

Did you check the valve lash adjustment before pulling it apart or throw a dial indicator on all of the rockers and roll it over to actually see what cam lift was on all the lobes first?

Another indicator of a lobe worn is if it has had numerous valve adjustments and one adjuster screw looks a lot shorter or longer than the rest at a glance. All very quick things that need to be checked before teardown should have occurred.

Knock miss, whatever the heck it is. 

It's hard to describe. Hopefully that video is a good description. I don't think bushings or bearings... everything was tight when I rolled it over by hand back and forth. No UOA. Valve lash was done multiple times since this started. No I don't own a dial indicator... yet.

The CR tappets are larger, but you gain nothing from it. The reason CR builds use 24V tappets is because they are lighter. I would stick with 24V, especially if yours are in good shape. Why do you want larger tappets?

What are you planning on running for valve springs?

i listened to the vid, its something dealing with the crank/rods/pistons. its a faster rattle than valvetrain. possibly wristpin bushing or conrod bearing?

Edited May 12, 20159 yr by CUMMINSDIESELPWR

What does the hub portion of the clutch look like specifically the dampner springs and spline area?

Got a lot of respect for and am proud to see you guys doing what you are doing. It's cool.

 

I say its time to roll that block over and inspect the bearings and look at the pistons. It is a weird knock. Think of it this way at least you be fixing the problem before it get damaging.

My hearing sux to start with so trying to listen to a video that has a lot of echoing doesn't help me there but I was never fond of how the 24v vp engines sounded, never been around any 2 that sounded or ran the same, they were always a different sounding beast compared to 12v and cr engines, I have listened to many that were like yours where people swore up and down they had an issue but nothing ever showed up. Sorry I can't hear too good maybe others are hearing things I can't.

listened to the vid again with headphones and it sounds like piston slapping in the bore, check the bores for roundness/wear or you might just be rebuilding to teardown again.

The CR tappets are larger, but you gain nothing from it. The reason CR builds use 24V tappets is because they are lighter. I would stick with 24V, especially if yours are in good shape. Why do you want larger tappets?

What are you planning on running for valve springs?

I just figured more surface area was better.... I suppose I am wrong though! I'll probably just stick with the 24V tappets.

Springs will either be 103# or 110#. 

 

i listened to the vid, its something dealing with the crank/rods/pistons. its a faster rattle than valvetrain. possibly wristpin bushing or conrod bearing?

It does seem faster than the valvetrain, but it is also inconsistent.... wouldn't a bearing have a constant knock no matter what?

 

What does the hub portion of the clutch look like specifically the dampner springs and spline area?

That I'm about to go take out now. I'll report back.

 

I say its time to roll that block over and inspect the bearings and look at the pistons. It is a weird knock. Think of it this way at least you be fixing the problem before it get damaging.

Yes it is weird.... I'm still working on how I'm going to roll the thing over. I have most of the steel and a gear reduction to build a stand, but it's a pain. I may just lay it on it's side for now. and keep taking things apart.

 

My hearing sux to start with so trying to listen to a video that has a lot of echoing doesn't help me there but I was never fond of how the 24v vp engines sounded, never been around any 2 that sounded or ran the same, they were always a different sounding beast compared to 12v and cr engines, I have listened to many that were like yours where people swore up and down they had an issue but nothing ever showed up. Sorry I can't hear too good maybe others are hearing things I can't.

Thank you for your input.

 

I'm heading out this morning to pull the clutch and front acessories. I may also pull the valves to see if there's anything in there. 

They stand on end nicely with a couple blocks once the clutch and flywheel are removed.

Also may sound funny but I have seen all sorts of things dropped or left inside engines once torn down and the perfect spot is behind the block side cover for the push rod and tappets behind the ecm, this could cause all sorts of noises too.

They stand on end nicely with a couple blocks once the clutch and flywheel are removed.

Also may sound funny but I have seen all sorts of things dropped or left inside engines once torn down and the perfect spot is behind the block side cover for the push rod and tappets behind the ecm, this could cause all sorts of noises too.

Great thought! I'll try standing it up on end. I'm not sure what my next move it going to be.... Stay tuned.

pull the pan, turn the crank over and inspect the bores from inside. check for any rod play lateral and vertical. you can also check for wrist pin play too.

Mechanical Engineering at the Colorado School of Mines. The price of everything now is crazy! The prices just keep going up.... I've got 3 years done and will graduate with my bachelors next spring, then back to school for one more year to pick up my masters. That school will be making a lot of money off of me!

 

I went to the same school and got the same undergrad degree.  I paid 3100 for my first semester of classes... But back in the early 2000s it was still a backwards nerdy dirty hard rock old school then.  Now it is all shiny and darned expensive. 

The CR tappets do have more surface area but it's not utilized by the cam lobes. Even the 1.4" tappets don't have 100% contact from what I recall. I'll see if I can find a pic of my OE tappets and the wear pattern. 

 

I would get the 103# springs from Hamilton, as well as his pushrods.

The CR tappets do have more surface area but it's not utilized by the cam lobes. Even the 1.4" tappets don't have 100% contact from what I recall. I'll see if I can find a pic of my OE tappets and the wear pattern. 

 

I would get the 103# springs from Hamilton, as well as his pushrods.

Springs, yes but the pushrods.... I know who makes Hamilton pushrods and it isn't Hamilton. I can get them cheaper from the manufacturer! 

interesting!  hope all goes well !

I got further into it today. I took the valves out, and the exhaust all look great. The intake on the other hand look HORRIBLE. It looks like oil has be leaking past the seals pretty badly. There is a pretty good amount of carbon build up on the valves and in the head. I don't thing this could cause what you guys heard in the video, but does anyone think it's possible??

 

The cam looks good. No abnormal wear on it.

The damper is shot. The rubber is starting to work its way out, so I'll need a new one. The crank has a small groove in it so I'll be installing a sleeve while I'm at it. The clutch looks good although it only has 19k on it. There were a few hot spots, but I'm guessing that's from the couple times it spun.

 

Pulled the damper and all of the front accessories. Front main was leaking pretty bad, and the front cover had some seeping as well. 

 

Head on the bench with most of the external parts romoved.

 

Head surface.... Oil around the intakes. I looked it over really close today and didn't see any cracks though 

 

Set it up on end to get to the bottom end.

 

Pulled the cam. Doesn't look like any abnormal wear.

 

I finished pulling the front cover, then bagged it for the night.

 

I found one small shard of metal in the pan, but I have no idea where is would go. It's really thin and small. Tomorrow I'll get a picture of the intake valves and inside the head so you know what I'm talking about. Any more ideas? Could bad valve seals / guides cause that noise?