pepsi71ocean

Do you think that the Camshaft profile could be partially to blame? I know it was reported in the 3rd gens that the cam profile was part of the reason for the issues with HG issues.

@IBMobile Yea Those instructions are different from the ones I have. I wonder why they stopped using the ECM harness for the relay trigger.

What do you have a fuel heating on that set up? Do you have gelling issues?

I learned that my front and rear axles even when the trucks up in the air doesn't lock front to back. Rears were on the ground in 4wd and the fronts still spun? I wish I kept the CAD switch. I like the pull cable, but its a real peace of work to get it into 4WD, usually involves putting the truck R-N-D-N-R something like that.

This is exactly why I have the smarty still. My truck will move a house down the road at 1,500 under load. And I'm not worried about timing as I I watch my EGT's and boost under load and she spools like a chain saw. Running up and down hills she holds in O/D much longer then I suppose i should. Rolling into the throttle I haven't had a need to do that since i raised the pop pressure on my injectors, but even before I lowered the TM# and raised the SW# to compensate for the change and she does good.

Revo is very confusing and I have gotten closer then anyone else has after 2+ years of trial and error with my set up, and changes of injectors and such, its a mess. But the Revo if you get it tuned right makes a raped ape truck. I think the Revo makes the other SW#'s even more versatile, granted I liked the SW#'s by themselves but the revo gave me allot of control over the engine that I didn't have with the regular SW#'s This article I wrote is about as close to understanding what the different revo functions do. And its not completed, but It is about as thoro as we can get without the help of MADS at all.

I think your issue is you have a pump for a 3rd gen, or FASS is now making a general kit for the trucks. Either way when you call FASS ***** about the code and see what they say. That's the only thing I can think of. You really should have the relay powered by the ECM fuel pump plug, and You can buy them off amazon if you didn't keep the plug end on the fuel pump. My FASS is wired this way from them, the way you describe it sounds like my fass fuel heater, which they said to tie into the ignition switch, however I cut my plug off of the fuel heater and spliced it into my truck fuel heater. So I still have a shut off, but it powers the fuel heater.

Is it all injectors, I'm kinda confused? I don't know if my smarty makes it worse and its already there. When I get my truck back in running condition I'll have to pull the smarty and see if there is a lope. I do know my truck knocks the no1 cylinder is slightly off, but It's been that way since I bought the truck at 44,000 miles.

@Ben That is some really interesting stuff there. I'm really curious to see the engine rpm dyno on the different levels, but They seem to match what @Me78569 had for a while on his quesadilla post on injectors. I think that the aggressiveness coming from the smarty is how fast it ramps on up. But even for me the revo is quite crazy for tune-ability and smoke control. Its hard to imagine how complicated this smarty is to understand.

With your experience on the smarty what do you think of my article i have a few posts up? Just curious. I have found raising the pop pressure eliminates the need to roll the foot into the throttle. My current set up i can punch it and go and have very little smoke.

your 7x.012 are set to 330 bar correct? Have you noticed an increase in spool up? Sounds dumb but I noticed a similar issue with my idle when my injectors were popping off low, but it was also effected by my smarty settings. Increasing the duration to much would replicate the idle you speak of. I suspect it is because the VP-44 is pumping ever so slightly more fuel until the idle pop is pushed forward until the engine burps out the excess fuel from the injector lines. I've noticed this issue is less prevalent when the Duration REVO is lower, if i set it too low to where i run out of fuel on heavy acceleration then the issue goes away completely. I'm unsure if this is an issue in general since the VP trucks have the ability to control fueling. Then again this is just a theory.

If you do have the free time, I'd love to see if that is the case, since the SW9 starts right off idle, i have observed through my own testing with the fueling and responsiveness. So If that is the case then I could see that. if other dyno runs with the smarty show the same I would really find that interesting. Yes and no, the Smarty doesn't place nice and requires more fine tuning to run right on an auto. But this is also as I've learned can work well, just requires allot of patience. The smarty behind a built auto with a higher popped injector is a beast, especially in the towing arena.

But in my case I already own the truck outright. Buying a 2nd gen new to me is only an option if its mint condition. I almost bought a mint garage kept 1999 3500 auto a few years ago for $17,000. Had 36,000 miles on it! Now a days, its hard to look at dropping 20,000 for a new 3rd gen and then factor in the cost of injectors every 100,000 miles.

That isn't correct. Your FASS 95 wiring harness is a direct line from battery to the FASS, then the relay on the Positive side is triggered from the ECM plug that runs to trigger the relay. What did you run through the firewall? Did you buy a fuel heater kit as well? The reason I ask this is is because the fuel heater kit is about exactly the same but it tells you to wire into ignition. @IBMobile The FASS wiring has the 85 ground going back to the ECM as that is how the ecm is wired on my 99. they basically used the ECM plug to energize the relay to power the lift pump. If course my positive side is wired into my PDC, and my ground to the battery just so you know

@Ben I wish there was a way to see the colors better. Can you expand on he two that start moving at 600rpm, I think that is the mad ecm correct?

Please do report back your findings. Im very courios to see how the settings effect your truck. My data was build around my truck with 100's. I'm courios too see also how close my article lines up with what you see, I noticed in re reading your previous post that your finding similar stuff as well.

@Tractorman I just realized I didn't answer your question about timing. I would move timing to 3 if you keep the SW low, you would most likely get more spool up with that. You may even benefit from SW5 TM5 Timing on 3 and a Duration on 3. I'm courios about your spool changes when you do that.

Can I ask about what the settings the smarty was on?

Well I wrote out a big response, the laptop crashed and I decided to post up my article. Its a little early but this is my rough and uncompleted Smarty article. Its unfinished and missing summaries and such, but I believe that in this state you would learn allot from it. But I think this would explain things much clearer then talking the dynamics. If you need something clarified feel free to ask away. @Tractorman @Mopar1973Man ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tuning with a Smarty Programmer Written by pepsi71ocean OK guys, here is the scoop. It has long been know that Smarty S03's burn dirty. But the bigger thing here is the fact that understanding how the smarty works, and base settings to start with seem to be non existence. As a result the confusion created makes the Smarty one of the most confusing programmers on the market. However, I believe that for towing it is one of the more powerful ones when set up correctly. I have spent the better part of two years testing different settings to see how they impact the smarty's ability to light my truck up. After 12,000 miles of testing, towing, and over 130 flashes on the ECM, this is the conclusion I have drawn. Some things that I noticed. Duration should be increased based on the size of the injectors. I have modified the tables below to what I *think* that they should be. Timing can become too advanced. Keeping timing at 4 can be a serious issue the higher your SW#. I do believe that this is effected by Injector size. Basically so far I have discovered that the the SW# and the revo software work independently of one another, meaning that SW9 is not the same as TM6, T4 and D5. I should note that there are variables here, Turbo Size, transmission type, torque converter stall speed. All play a factor on your abilities to tune your truck here. The Smarty S03 is only good for use really between 1,200 and 2,400rpm's, but this is the area your truck is using the most. The S03 locks timing at 18.02*, but the amount of throttle required to lock the timing at that ratio changes based on the Timing level and the SW# The higher the SW# the faster the Smarty ramps up the fueling and timing from idle up. However the larger the injectors the lower you need to have the Timing#. This is because the SW# eschews the throttle position read to the ECM. The higher the Timing# the sooner the Smarty will lock the Timing at 18.02*, This is proportional to the SW# Smoke control can also be controlled by mechanical means, ie raising injector pop pressure. With that being said testing of different SW's and information is below. Torque Management This setting controls the low end response, when running low boost you need to turn this down. If your having issues with cruise control, this will help calm down the surging issues. The larger the Injector the lower the TM# should be. I consider 3 the lowest number, the closer to stock injectors the higher you can get on the TM#. Another option is those who have faster spooling turbo's. With my built automatic TM2 was useless, it held 1st gear until 2,400rpm's and the shifting was really aggressive. Torque Management # 0 - Default<Default for the SW#> # 1 – Factory TM # 2 – Light TM(you need to adjust TV cable for this) # 3 – Good for larger injectors 100hp or greater # 4 – OK for larger injectors 75-100hp, depending on transmission TV cable setting. # 5 – OK for larger injectors 50-75hp, depending on transmission TV cable setting. # 6 – Good for stock Injectors, Duration This setting controls the length of injection. I find it is useful to set accordingly. This setting controls passing power on the freeway. It is quite possible to run out of fuel when passing at higher speeds. For example on #2 I was good for passing at 35-40 mph, but the truck couldn't pass at highway speeds of 65-70mph. If you set this to high you WILL roll coal on the freeway when passing. Injection duration # 0 - Default<Default for the SW#> # 1 – Stock duration # 2 – Good for Injectors below 75 HP # 3 – Good for 75-100 HP # 4 – Good for 100 HP # 5 – Good for larger then 100 HP Timing The Timing setting here make a huge difference. For trucks with larger injectors you should watch the SW# settings. On SW5 with 100hp injectors it is OK to run 4. But climb up there is required step back to prevent overtiring. NOTE: Running larger injectors on #4 can cause to much timing, adjusting the SW# down is necessary. Larger Injectors can run more timing on a lower SW#, but the higher it is the lower the number has to be. This is because the SW#9 setting runs timing much lower then the lower SW#'s NOTE: Running the SW# on even result in stock timing, however changing the timing revo will revert the truck back to Smarty timing. Bottom Line Timing on 3 is the same weather your running an Even or an odd SW#. NOTE: The smarty locks the timing regardless of the Timing # at 18.02*, however the SW# and the higher the Timing can change how fast it gets to that 18.02* and how much pedal is required. Note that to much timing can cause negative torque which I expand on more below when detecting for it. The amount of throttle required to lock the timing lowers as you raise the the Timing#, this is fine when running a lower SW#, however when raised from SW5 to SW7 the Timing# will lock at lower throttle position. My truck on SW9 with Timing on 4 could barely spool the turbo below 2,000 rpms, however drop the SW to 5 and t4 it spools like a chain saw. Injection Timing # 0 – Default<Default for the SW#> # 1 – Stock<Stock Timing> # 2 - SW Timing for stock injectors # 3 - SW Timing for aftermarket Injectors # 4 - SW Timing for aggressive timing Step back table for Timing with larger Injectors. SW# Acceptable Advised Not OK SW5 T2- T3- T4 T3- T4 SW7 T2- T3- T4 T2- T3- T4 SW9 T2- T3 T3 T4 WARNING: When detecting how much timing is to much timing, you must observe the over advancement, and why it happens. The larger injectors inject fuel in shorter duration, and as such the added timing created between that and the fact that most larger injectors are also set to 300 bar, not 310 bar. Detecting over advancement is best defined as a sluggish motor, it struggles to get up and running, especially at low rpm. No matter how hard you push the pedal she accelerates like a bear until you get into the 2,000 rpm range. If this is the case it's best to back off the Timing 1 notch. SW# And Revo Than higher the SW# then more aggressive the throttle response from idle up. Remember the gain in HP at the top is the same, however what you are using the smarty for is the low and mid range bump. The higher the SW# the lower the bump moves in RPM. So low that on SW#9 its about right off idle. The aggressiveness also controls smoke control. Its been widely noted that smoke control is easier on the higher SW# because the timing ramp is very fast, but your movement on the throttle is less. However for towing use the lower the SW# the better you have control over towing. Remember that the Even SW# are fueling only, unless you switch the Timing# to something other then the default of the Catcher. Choosing a SW# for towing varies by injector size, turbo spooling, and other variables, but its best to start looking around SW5. Here is the SW Table SW# 1 : Fuel Saver SW# 2 : Only more fuel and Boost fooling SW# 3 : Like # 2 + added timing SW# 4 : “Soft” CaTCHER no added timing SW# 5 : Like # 4 + added Timing SW# 6 : Mild CaTCHER no added timing SW# 7 : Like # 6 + added Timing SW# 8 : CaTCHER no added timing SW # 9 : CaTCHER with Timing Smoke and Spool up Control When you start using the CaTCHER software, its best to start planting your TM and Timing and Duration based on the tables I wrote up above, and make adjustments as necessary. NOTE:If you want more low end response raise the TM# up one notch. NOTE:If you want to add more passing power raise Duration up one notch. Its best to find the limits of what you need. For example with Duration I found that 5 made smoke on passing, and 3 I ran out on the high way, so backing to 4 was ideal. The pyrometers will be effected by this, as the injection duration is in blocks, You can't make finite adjustments, however the extra fueling between 3 and 5 is enough with 100hp injectors to get passing power smoke. Torque Management will work in a similar fashion, the low end rolling boost is proportional to the TM# and injector size. When I had TM set to 6 I couldn't even use cruise control and had smoke if I pushed the pedal to fast, lower the TM# and the issues went away. And even so the cruise control and smoke issues got less as I dropped the TM from 6 to 4, and found that 2 was unusable, but 3 worked best for me. I still believe that the smaller the injectors the higher you can raise the TM# without these effects. Even so the two are still connected, you can still roll coal with TM#6 with duration on 2 or 3 with larger injectors. Because the TM will still control the spool up on the passing side of the turbo. This is important to note as this can confuse people when it comes to tuning for smoke control. Smoke Control All of this is designed to help with smoke control and tune-ability so that you can get a good running truck. However, if you find yourself in the a situation where you have low end smoke and your running out of passing power, you may want to check and get your injectors popped. I advise a base of at least 300 if not higher based on injector size. I set my 100's to 322 BAR and have no smoke even after making tuning adjustments. Basics Behind This Here is my "theory" The timing # of 4 is high enough that on SW#9 I see negative torque through the motor across the board. But back to T#3 the smarty still on SW#9 now accelerates better (no negative torque), However T2 it runs like a raped ape to me on SW#9. SW7 I couldn't find a single usable combination that my truck liked. SW5 I found that T2 it ran like crap, but Upped to T3 and it ran better, and T4 this truck audibly sounds different. Smoke is fairly clean, and the turbo lag while it exists off the line (if your standing still and lay on it), but towing the truck it does not show any visible negative torque on the motor. This is why I'm thinking that the change of SW# number does have an effect on timing, a good example is how T4 is useless on SW9 but runs fine on SW5. I suspect that SW3 on T4 would run even better, perhaps totally smoke free. Something that I have to test, but my starter **** on me Wednesday, I'm in the processing of pulling it. I will say this that Duration (with larger injectors) has a huge effect on passing power. I have ran out of fuel on lower duration especially when towing the tractor (for testing reasons). Duration on 2 or 3 @ 18psi of boost I run out of oomph, the truck feels like a semi truck climbing a hill. Even at 65 or 70 mph it is worse as the engine rpm rises up. With larger injectors I think that the lower Duration doesn't supply enough fuel to the injectors under load to maintain timing. Effects of Injector pop pressure on smoke control ------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: I should add in that raising the SW# you can and have to dial back the revo settings, however they balance themselves out really well. I'm currently running SW% TM3 T4 and Duration on 4. With my injectors popped at 300 bar this truck ran great, at 320bar she has zero smoke, and spools like a chain saw. Smoke control is also proportional, the higher the TM# the more low end smoke you have, with the Duration to high you have passing power smoke. it sounds odd. NOTE:If you find that this article helps with programming do let me know what you find so i can add it in. I only have an automatic that i can gather this information on.

I reached the conclusion for me that even at the age of a 1999, and having already dumped more into the truck then i could sell it for, I've spent more and more time doing work on it. I believe that watching countless people go from 2nd gens into 3rd and 4th gens only to go back to the 2nds, and complain about the cost of injectors, cp3's and emissions its north worth the hassle. It maybe a toy but my 99 will still get up and tow when i need it to. Simplicity of the design also makes them more reliable.

Personally for me it depends on what the boost is doing. if the engine can climb the baby hills on the lower rpm then your good. granted I have an automatic and I'm a dully i find this truck runs around at 1,400-1,600rpm fairly well. Towing with my smarty I will downshift anytime i sense the engine starting to load up. And with my smarty that seems to be around 1,400rpm. Bit for me in O/D if your that low in rpm you should be in 3rd anyways. Granted your a manual and these engines are not semi trucks, but I find that empty your fine to run down low as long as you have a programmer to get your timing and fueling. You will know if your lugging these motors around.

All of this talk has me questioning rebuilding my dodge with 126,000 miles on her.

What are you replacing it with?

Dynamic couldn't have stated it any better. DTT had me wire this into the 5v coming from the PCM going to the transmission. Goerend uses a resister soldered into the valve body. This leads back to me trying to get a hold of you about redoing my valve body.

I got very luck when mine went out. It was fixable.