Another battery thread.....

[KATOOM]

Interesting approach.....because the way I understand it is the actual "draw" on the plates is what changes the electrolytes and chemically alters the lead cells.  The larger the draw the more it depletes the plates and if the draw is too great then plate corrosion becomes a problem.

So yes, less recharge time will cause the destructive stratification but thats going to be a problem with any battery.  Although again, a larger battery will see less overall capacity draw and therefore, from what I read, should result in less acid stratification because the overall charge is maintaining higher and the charging system isn't forced to boost the system in order to reverse stratification.  A reason why AMG batteries are becoming so popular too.....

[Mopar1973Man]

Ahhh... That why when I do my month battery watering of the vehicles and the house they are placed into a equalize charge to deal with that destructive stratification by stirring in the distilled water and the raising the overall charge voltage above normal 13-14 volt range to 15.5 volts. Of course, on the vehicle the battery is disconnected for this process. 

Quote

An equalizing charge is nothing more than a deliberate overcharge to remove sulfate crystals that build up on the plates over time. Left unchecked, sulfation can reduce the overall capacity of the battery and render the battery unserviceable in extreme cases. An equalizing charge also reverses acid stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top.

Charging temperatures

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_at_high_and_low_temperatures

Equalize charging

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/equalizing_charge

NOTE: You cannot Equalize charge a AGM battery it will damage the battery. 

Quote

Equalizing VRLA and other sealed batteries involves guesswork. Observing the differences in cell voltage does not give a conclusive solution and good judgment plays a pivotal role when estimating the frequency and duration of the service. Some manufacturers recommend monthly equalizations for 2–16 hours. Most VRLAs vent at 34kPa (5psi), and repeated venting leads to the depletion of the electrolyte, which can lead to a dry-out condition.

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[KATOOM]

Good discussion, as always.....

[Mopar1973Man]

I love doing a good battle back and forth making me dig hard and deep for information to back it up! 

Here you go.. I kind of lost the clip on the watering but you should get the idea...

 

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[KATOOM]

I just thought I'd update the thread as to what I did.....  I decided to go with the amazing deal Costco has on Interstate batteries at around $90 each.

My truck sizing is group 27 or 34.  In 2002 Dodge included group 65 but my battery tray had one little plastic edge that stops the passenger side from fitting correctly.  So because I wanted the 850 CCA and 150 reserve of the group 65's, I trimmed the 1/4" plastic nub off the battery tray and it fit perfect.  The drivers side fit fine without any modifying.  The top hold downs needed to be messed with though because they're not wide enough for 65's so I just moved their corners to accommodate.  Easy peasy and looks nice.

After hooking everything up I tested them out.  WOW.....I seemingly forgot how fast these engines can crank.  Truck lights up almost faster than I can get off the key.  I'm impressed.

But all that said, this brings up a very important point I think needs to be addressed.....  My batteries were 6 years old.  I seemingly haven't had any trouble cranking the engine so why even consider replacing them right?  Starts fine every time and the alternator tested OK too.  But the trouble with a dual battery system is ya never know their true condition unless you test them independently of each other.  And.....after switching these batteries out I think that one of them was probably much weaker and was lagging the system.  Unfortunately I didnt know this either because my initial knee-jerk impression was it was starting fine and they were clean.  Heck, if you check around its more a trophy for people to let them sit there until they're completely done.

The other reason which raised some concern after the battery change was, my truck inherited an odd cold engine lope after installing the RV275's.  I researched around but no one ever shared the similar change so I thought I was on my own.  Obviously I attributed the new characteristic to the injectors since it was right after I installed them.....but strangely there has been zero lope after changing out the batteries.  Idles smoother than ever.

So, in point, I've always felt that these trucks are unbelievably sensitive to electronic anomalies but I've only confirmed my own logic by my truck inevitably thanking me for giving it some new batteries. 

[dripley]

It is funny you mention that lope. I too got one after changing over to the RV 275's several years ago, maybe 5 or so, and did attribute that to the injectors. The lope stayed with me on and off for a good while. I too never saw anyone with the issue and just quit worrying about it. Got to where I just never paid it any attention and it got to where it happened less and less the longer they were in there. I have not noticed happening in a good while but I did change out my batteries a year or so ago. Maybe thats why. I will keep an ear open for it now. 

Good to hear the batteries worked out for you. 

Edited March 4, 2016 by dripley

[notlimah]

Man that'd interesting to hear the actual explanation as to why the truck might lope under lower charged batteries with bigger injectors.

[dodgedieselnewbie]

Glad you are happy with your new batteries! I had to look up lope to find out what it was. Apparently.. some find it desirable but not sure why?

[Cowboy]

People that like it also wear flat bills, enjoy black smoke, and transform there truck into a cack (it's a mix between a car and a truck, the uselessness of a car, with the ride quality, handling and cost of a truck).

[Mopar1973Man]

Then there are people that get caught up in specs and don't under stand what they getting into. All I can say if I got all these vehicles with batteries, house powered by batteries, and an RV power with batteries. So far all the vehicles including my ATV and lawn mower. All I can say is consider what I said about battery size and charging.

 

[dodgedieselnewbie]

I watched your video on equalizing/charging a battery... I don't have an elaborate system like you... can I achieve the same thing with just a battery charger?

[Mopar1973Man]

12 minutes ago, dodgedieselnewbie said:

I watched your video on equalizing/charging a battery... I don't have an elaborate system like you... can I achieve the same thing with just a battery charger?

Yes. A high amperage battery charger typically will charge at about 15.0 to 15.5 volts for a 50amp charger.

[dodgedieselnewbie]

Oh.. I only have a 10 amp charger...

[Killer223]

odd this topic shows up today, my wifes car battery just took a dump. it's a 12 civic. only got 4 years out of it. cal ranch and Walmart have the best prices, but i haven't looked at battery solutions.

[KATOOM]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Then there are people that get caught up in specs and don't under stand what they getting into. All I can say if I got all these vehicles with batteries, house powered by batteries, and an RV power with batteries. So far all the vehicles including my ATV and lawn mower. All I can say is consider what I said about battery size and charging.

 

Dont read more into the reason why I updated this thread Mike.  Yes I got 65's over the 27's or 34' but.....65's are still OEM size for your year truck.  But all that said, the biggest difference I wanted to point out was not how much better the engine cranked but rather "why" it cranked faster, and "what else" the weak battery(s) just so happen to cause.....  So I dont really care what battery size someone wants as long as it meets minimum OEM specs, but to assume they're in better condition than they are has obviously made the a$$ of me.

[Mopar1973Man]

Stock spec is 750 CCA. Group size is nothing just shape and size typically of the battery. When I mention "battery size" I was saying CCA not group size or physical size. Of course a wore down battery is going to perform slower vs. a new battery regardless of physical size or CCA because the new battery will always have more CCA over the wore one taken out.

10 hours ago, KATOOM said:

but to assume they're in better condition than they are has obviously made the a$$ of me.

This where I want to learn from the failure. Still I have to ask the question why didn't the battery last as long? I'm looking at factors that affect the lifespan of the battery and why your are shorter in life span?

[KATOOM]

Again, you and I agree for the most part and there's no opposition from me.  I'm just simply trying to make it clear why I chose what I chose.

Because in regards to group size and CCA, what was available to me was 34's (1000ca / 800cca / 110 rc) or 65's (1000ca / 850cca / 150 rc).  There was a couple 27's out there (940ca / 750cca / 100 rc) but not very many.  Its almost as if 27's are falling out of style since very few applications use them so very few of them are even carried at the actual store locations.

Also what I learned when looking for batteries is the best option is not so much the actual cranking amps above the OEM specs (as you point out too) but rather the reserve capacity.  Finding the highest RC is best because it defines the batteries ability to do the job best suited for those CA's listed.  But CA and RC seemingly can go hand in hand so its hard to find a low CA "starting" battery with high reserve.  Deep cell is obviously different.  So if I could have found 34's or 27's with a higher RC then that would have been my choice.  and if mere CA's were all I was after then I can guarantee 31's would have been what would have shopped for.  I was certainly interesting to see what is available but in the end I simply reverted back to what the 2002 year called for instead of 2001.  Thats all I'm saying.....

As for why my batteries failed.....  Well I'm not sure I'd say they "failed" or didn't last as long as they should because they were going on 7 years and the truck did crank fine.  Clearly not cranking as fast as I remembered it could, but batteries do deteriorate over time.  Had I not been concerned with causing electrical issues or stressing the diodes I absolutely would have kept them for probably another year or so until they left me stranded.  So I cant really say they didn't last as long as they should because in reality they did.  I kept them clean and full of water and dont do a lot of hot weather driving in this truck so they probably lived a comfortable life aside from having to power up some serious energy hogging grid elements during the winter.  I actually thought about just replacing them with the same thing since I obviously got my money out of them and hopefully the same product would have repeated the valiant effort.  But again, RC was my new determining factor and we shall see if it pays off.....

[Mopar1973Man]

If I'm not mistaken the 65's are the battery used in the 2003 and up trucks. Strange though you having issues finding 27's. I might have to peek around me and see how plentiful 27's are.

As for "Reserve Capacity"

Quote

Reserve Capacity (RC) is the number of minutes a fully charged battery at 80*F (26.7*C) is discharged at 25 amps before the voltage falls below 10.5 volts. To convert Reserve Capacity (RC) to Ampere-Hours at the 25 amp rate, multiple RC by .4167

 

So more or less in simple terms "Reserve Capacity" different bred of amp/hour rating. So 100 RC x 0.4167 = (41.67 amp/hours), 110 RC x 0.4167 = (45.83 amp/hours) or your last stated number 150 x .4167 = (62.50 amp/hours).

[dripley]

I usually look at battery displays when around them just to see what folks get for them and have noticed the 27's being less plentiful that in the past

Why would weak batteries cause a lope?

Edited March 5, 2016 by dripley

[IBMobile]

I think that the alternator is being taxed to keep 2 weak batteries up and with that added strain on the charging system the voltage level to the emc/pcm/vp suffers and shows up as a lope due to some feed back in the system analogous to what an O2 sensor does in a gas vehicle.