What's This Going On???

[dorkweed]

I've been experiencing something, that I think is new........................or else I've never really noticed it before.

 

When I start my truck, and it's Winter here now....................I let the grid heaters do their thing.  Then start my truck.................always starts.  

 

Seems like the "charge gauge" on the dash is taking a longer than normal time to come back.  I don't even recall what is normal time for it.  Here's the thing about my posting this though....................if I start to drive BEFORE the charge gauge comes back, I will get the ABS and Brake light flash on the dash along with the single chime.  If I wait until the charge gauge comes back up.....................no chime or lights.

 

Batteries are just over a year old.................as is the alternator.

[Killer223]

i get the same thing, as with my edge gauges, the battery Volts can be 14.8 and the gauge on the dash says well below 14 till i get above 15 mph. i think it's the computer that sets the dash gauge,

i haven't worried about it one bit.

[TFaoro]

15mph is where the grids are shut off. 

I'd start by having both batteries load tested. Do you have something that can read the voltage besides the dash gauge?

[AH64ID]

The charge gauge is actually a voltmeter in our trucks and "shows" battery voltage. Charge gauges are ammeters and show flow in/out of the battery. 

I say "shows" because it is an ECM driven gauge that isn't always accurate. Mine shows `12V during grid heater operations (the entire 2 minutes or until I hit 18 mph) regardless of actual voltage (11.xx-14.xx normally). 

At 15 mph the ABS motor does a self test. If your voltage is low, really really low, it could cause an issue?? I don't know thou as I have driven with some pretty low voltage after having dead batteries and starting to drive right after jumping with the grid heater still on. 

 

Have you scanned for codes with your Smarty?

[dorkweed]

3 hours ago, AH64ID said:

The charge gauge is actually a voltmeter in our trucks and "shows" battery voltage. Charge gauges are ammeters and show flow in/out of the battery. 

I say "shows" because it is an ECM driven gauge that isn't always accurate. Mine shows `12V during grid heater operations (the entire 2 minutes or until I hit 18 mph) regardless of actual voltage (11.xx-14.xx normally). 

At 15 mph the ABS motor does a self test. If your voltage is low, really really low, it could cause an issue?? I don't know thou as I have driven with some pretty low voltage after having dead batteries and starting to drive right after jumping with the grid heater still on. 

 

Have you scanned for codes with your Smarty?

No codes.................but this seems to be a "thing" since the Smarty Update you provided me with.  Just saying, of course!!!

If I let my truck idle while the alternator charge the batteries.....................when my truck "clicks" on the grid heaters there is a noticeable "HRRUMFF" of the engine.  Not anything noticeable when it clicks off..........................save for the solenoid clicking..........................

 

But every time the grid heater clicks OFF....................there is a noticeable HRUMMFF in the engine idle.

[Mopar1973Man]

Ok. You are going to need a test light and a DVM. While the truck is idling just started cold check the grid heater terminals for power see if both are hitting or one is hitting. Then with the DVM hook it up to the battery and watch the battery voltage. Tell me what the DVM voltage is doing during the on cycle of the grid heaters. I'm wondering if there is a damage grid heater? 

Just double checking, I would have both batteries load tested and have the alternator load tested as well. 

That "HRUMMFF" as you call it is typically a sign of heavy draw on the alternator. 

[dorkweed]

What's a DVM????  

 

In almost 12 years  of ownership, I've never disconnected the grid heaters!!!!

[Me78569]

Digital volt meter.

 

I don't bother either.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Disconnecting for a test start on a cold morning might give you a clue if the grid heaters are pulling that hard... For diagnostic reasons might be what you need to see if that is your problem. 

[AH64ID]

The noise you are hearing when they cycle on is the high amp draw loading the engine. 

You need to determine the actual voltages you are working with. If the trucks starts normally then it could be an alternator issue. 

 

[2500ctd]

Mine does the same. At first I heard the chime and never noticed the lights flash. At first I thought it was the parking brake pedal not returning fully. However it does only happen if I'm driving and the grid heaters are active. It chimes everytime the grid heaters cycle off. I believe my batteries are towards the end of their life. its "normal" for now. However after I change my batteries, I'm hoping it goes away. 

Also, one of my grid heaters is not working. I know since the relay is burned. Happened before I ever had the smarty on my truck. First did it when it started getting cold.

[Mopar1973Man]

11 hours ago, AH64ID said:

The noise you are hearing when they cycle on is the high amp draw loading the engine. 

You need to determine the actual voltages you are working with. If the trucks starts normally then it could be an alternator issue. 

 

I'm wondering about draw too. I wonder if the heater itself is drawing more current because of a issue. Unusual to hear a engine load up against a grid heater then huff as it unloads. The only time I've seen that was on the end of my last batteries at 10 years old they were getting a bit weak so it would do that load up and surge some as it unloaded. So I'm agreement with AH64ID just wondering if there is extra load that might belong...

[dorkweed]

2 minutes 23 seconds from startup to the "idiot" dash charge gauge to come back today.  Is that normal??  Cranks fine.

 

The Hrumf is not seen in the tach.  Heck, most folks wouldn't probably notice it.  I can hear it when its clicking in and out............it's slight, but it's there.  It's not at all like what happens in the welding trucks when the arc is stuck.

 

I'm gonna have to wait for the tests guys, as it's too cold to work on the truck, and we got 6 inches of snow yesterday and supposed to get a few more tomorrow.  Next week is a Florida work week for me.................so this'll be a little while.

 

Should I check my RP gauge when this happens???  The ECM adjusts for the load no?????  So the RP should change when this happens, no???  

[Mopar1973Man]

Batteries need to be load tested.

[AH64ID]

I don't think there is anything wrong with an audible load change with the grid's cycling, every Cummins I have been around does it.. VE, P7100, VP, HPCR, 5.9, 6.7, etc.. It's small but once you pay attention you notice it. I can tell when mine cycle standing next to the truck and I can hear it in the exhaust too. 

 

2:23 is a little long as it should be coming back up closer to the 2:00 mark. It's possible the alternator is the issue, not the batteries. 

 

If it starts fine in the cold after a full grid heater cycle I do not think it's a battery issue. WIth the amp draw of the grids and starter that is a load test every time you start. 

 

The brake light issue and the possibly slow to recharge post cycling make me think it's the alternator. 

 

What happens if you bump the rpms to 1,100 right after you start it?

[dorkweed]

15 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

I don't think there is anything wrong with an audible load change with the grid's cycling, every Cummins I have been around does it.. VE, P7100, VP, HPCR, 5.9, 6.7, etc.. It's small but once you pay attention you notice it. I can tell when mine cycle standing next to the truck and I can hear it in the exhaust too. 

 

2:23 is a little long as it should be coming back up closer to the 2:00 mark. It's possible the alternator is the issue, not the batteries. 

 

If it starts fine in the cold after a full grid heater cycle I do not think it's a battery issue. WIth the amp draw of the grids and starter that is a load test every time you start. 

 

The brake light issue and the possibly slow to recharge post cycling make me think it's the alternator. 

 

What happens if you bump the rpms to 1,100 right after you start it?

Like manually doing the "high idle" thing by me depressing the throttle and then not driving????  Will try tomorrow.  If no lights and no chime..................what are you thinking??

 

I hit the stopwatch feature on my iPhone as soon as my truck started after cycling the grid heater.  As soon as the idiot gauge started moving up, I hit STOP.  It was about 25 degrees.

Edited March 3, 2016 by dorkweed

[AH64ID]

I take it you haven't enabled your fast idle??

Disregard if that is the case. 

 

I am thinking alternator output may be low and additional rpms should increase it. 

[dorkweed]

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

I take it you haven't enabled your fast idle??

Disregard if that is the case. 

 

I am thinking alternator output may be low and additional rpms should increase it. 

I've not disabled it, and it works just fine...............................but it won't kick on after sitting in my un-heated garage overnight within the time frame we're looking at.  With the temps we're gonna see tonite, my attached, un-heated garage will be in the mid to upper 30's when I'll start it in the AM.

[AH64ID]

14 minutes ago, dorkweed said:

I've not disabled it, and it works just fine...............................but it won't kick on after sitting in my un-heated garage overnight within the time frame we're looking at.  With the temps we're gonna see tonite, my attached, un-heated garage will be in the mid to upper 30's when I'll start it in the AM.

I am talking about the one with the cruise control buttons. The automatic one only gets to 1,000 and takes 2 minutes to do so when it's above about 15°. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by AH64ID

[dorkweed]

I've never been able to "manually" engage the high idle on my '04.5.  I've tried it in the past, but not with the new Smarty download.