UDC tuning for vp trucks!!??

[Me78569]

The vp44 can fuel to 4800 if and only if bosch opened up the psg to do so.  They spec'd 4800 rpm for a lot of the car applications. 

 

Reason why the cummins has issues extending the fueling curve up that far is that you have to fight the ecm & the psg the whole way.

 

I doubt very much it will fuel at 1500 ft/lb at 4000 rpm, but remember hp is a calculation of torque over time,  If you took a reasonable dd truck like most of us have, 400 hp / 800 ft/lb and held / extended the fueling curve , rev limiter, you should make a significant amount of HP without actually having to increase torque.

 

 

Really all pointless to talk about really, but my point is the limitations of the vp44 are mostly bosch code limits rather than actually fueling limits.  I am %100 sure at 4000 rpm the vp44 won't fuel as hard as at 2400 rpm, but it is still able to run fine without issues provided the bosch PSG would let it run there.  Again not arguing that fueling will drop off hard, rather than some of the RPM limitation is in the psg.  the tuning the over 3200 rpm boxes due to kinda brutish.  I am sure plunger fill issues are a big part of it too.

 

I have often wondered if you could stick a vp30 psg on the vp44.  Since the vp30 car a car application I would guess the psg would allow for a higher rpm.  Heck even find a car application vp44, compare part numbers and see...

Edited March 23, 2016 by Me78569

[AH64ID]

1500 lb/ft at 4,000 rpms would be 1,142 hp... So there is your answer, doubtful. 

 

Even a single HPCR pump can't do that, but it's easier to double up CR pumps :-) 

[NightHawk]

16 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Thank you bring that video forward. I knew that Stainless made over 1000 HP on fuel only on VP44.

15 hours ago, Me78569 said:

The vp44 can fuel to 4800 if and only if bosch opened up the psg to do so.  They spec'd 4800 rpm for a lot of the car applications. 

Reason why the cummins has issues extending the fueling curve up that far is that you have to fight the ecm & the psg the whole way.

I doubt very much it will fuel at 1500 ft/lb at 4000 rpm, but remember hp is a calculation of torque over time,  If you took a reasonable dd truck like most of us have, 400 hp / 800 ft/lb and held / extended the fueling curve , rev limiter, you should make a significant amount of HP without actually having to increase torque.

Really all pointless to talk about really, but my point is the limitations of the vp44 are mostly bosch code limits rather than actually fueling limits.  I am %100 sure at 4000 rpm the vp44 won't fuel as hard as at 2400 rpm, but it is still able to run fine without issues provided the bosch PSG would let it run there.  Again not arguing that fueling will drop off hard, rather than some of the RPM limitation is in the psg.  the tuning the over 3200 rpm boxes due to kinda brutish.  I am sure plunger fill issues are a big part of it too.

I have often wondered if you could stick a vp30 psg on the vp44.  Since the vp30 car a car application I would guess the psg would allow for a higher rpm.  Heck even find a car application vp44, compare part numbers and see...

However, I posted the Stainless video to show a point - high rpm isn't necessary as they made 1000hp @ 2862rpms.  While high rpm has its benefits, why seek to turn higher if its not needed...

32 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

1500 lb/ft at 4,000 rpms would be 1,142 hp... So there is your answer, doubtful. 

Even a single HPCR pump can't do that, but it's easier to double up CR pumps :-) 

Check the dyno graph at the end for hp vs rpm, but asking for a single cp3 when ppumps/vps are modified is not a proper comparison in my book...

 

[Me78569]

Agree'd

 

Even if they could open up the rpm's I doubt I would ever use them, but the ecm tables are built in a manner to support that.  The psg however is not.  that is where the rpm fight is lost.

9 hours ago, AH64ID said:

1500 lb/ft at 4,000 rpms would be 1,142 hp... So there is your answer, doubtful. 

 

Even a single HPCR pump can't do that, but it's easier to double up CR pumps :-) 

We agree no way the vp44 can fuel enough to make 1500 ft /lb at 4000 rpm.

On 3/23/2016 at 7:55 AM, Me78569 said:

I doubt very much it will fuel at 1500 ft/lb at 4000 rpm, but remember hp is a calculation of torque over time,  If you took a reasonable dd truck like most of us have, 400 hp / 800 ft/lb and held / extended the fueling curve , rev limiter, you should make a significant amount of HP without actually having to increase torque..

 

 

More than one way to skin a cat, not that I care to skin the cat in the first place haha.  

Edited March 24, 2016 by Me78569

[Me78569]

03-07 cr truck are done......

 

 

we are next. pretty curious.

[AH64ID]

I'll just leave this here...

 

http://smartyresource.net/forum/showthread.php?1157-Update-Version-15&p=5690#post5690

[notlimah]

Cool! Looking forward to what you guys will come up with tuning wise! I got your smarty back just in time @TFaoro!!

[TFaoro]

Quote from the link:

 

The support for the VP trucks is not really complete!

In simple terms, it will not make any more power or any more RPM's than a Smarty S03 would do.

The reason for this is simple but at the same time rather complicated.

There are hidden limiters that limit Fuel-Timing-RPM. At this point in time, we have started to completely disassemble (Reverse Engineer) the ECM's software.


For the above reasons, I decided to not show any RPM related parameters. There ARE a ton of RPM

limiters in the Map part of the ECM but no matter what, they're useless since the RPM's in the real world

then do not increase.

Time of completion on that? Weeks? Months? Can't say but we are on it.

End quote:

 

Soooooo I'm not convinced yet. Plus the $350 for the dongle.... Plus the $850 for the touch... Plus more if you want to update on the fly. If they advance it further, maybe. If nothing comes anytime soon I don't see too much of a point.

 

8 minutes ago, notlimah said:

Cool! Looking forward to what you guys will come up with tuning wise! I got your smarty back just in time @TFaoro!!

If only it worked on a regular smarty!

[Me78569]

Maybe I should shoot them over the scipod stuff I have from the last guy who openned up the ECM.

 

However they may be running into the limiters that the PSG has in place.  There is only so much you can do from the ECM since the PSG is what decides what to do.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Me78569

[notlimah]

What's the PSG?

[AH64ID]

It's a start. 

 

It's currently the most tuning capability the VP has had on a public scale. 

[TFaoro]

13 minutes ago, notlimah said:

What's the PSG?

The computer on top of the VP

7 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

It's a start. 

 

It's currently the most tuning capability the VP has had on a public scale. 

Maybe the most advanced for nit-picky tuning, but definitely not the most powerful or rpm capable.

[Me78569]

I really would like to take a look at the tuning stuff.  

 

Can I download it and poke around or do I have to have the smarty connected?

18 minutes ago, notlimah said:

What's the PSG?

 

It's the captain for fueling on our trucks.  The ecm merely asks the psg for fueling VIA canbus, the PSG is what controls fueling based upon it's own tuning.   

[TFaoro]

Yes, you can download it. Not sure if they have a stock vp base to play with though. I know they have the CR's though

 

[Me78569]

downloading now...I think.

[AH64ID]

24 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

The computer on top of the VP

Maybe the most advanced for nit-picky tuning, but definitely not the most powerful or rpm capable.

 

Are you talking a tuner or a module?

Yes you can download it and look at everything. 

 

The VP's appear to use much lower timing than I anticipated in OEM form. 

[TFaoro]

9 minutes ago, AH64ID said:

 

Are you talking a tuner or a module?

Yes you can download it and look at everything. 

 

The VP's appear to use much lower timing than I anticipated in OEM form. 

So they do have the stock tables ... good to hear.

I'm talking of all the programmers / modules / gizmos /  everything.

[AH64ID]

3 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

 

I'm talking of all the programmers / modules / gizmos /  everything.

 

Figured, I am talking programmers. 

 

Modules have mostly disappeared on the newer stuff with all the ECM options available and how much more reliable they are than modules. I hope that the VP crowd can do the same thing!! It really is a much better tuning experience. 

[Me78569]

I am looking at it now.  

 

If you have not read over the documents in the scipod stuff you really need to.  Smarty's work looks VERY similar to that.

 

This is actually pretty damn cool though, even with the limited tuning it is pretty neat.

[AH64ID]

Everything starts somewhere. This has more custom options that UDC did when it first came out.