HY/HX swap

[notlimah]

So I've come to my senses a bit thanks to @TFaoro and have decided that I need to cannibalize my fleet and throw the HX that's in my 99 into the 02 since that's the truck that's staying for the long haul. Now, with that being said, I do have some questions.

- Do I take out the entire thing?! (turbine & compressor housings n such?)

- I figure I should get a rebuild kit for the HX since I know it's never been done, anything else besides the basic kit DAP sells?

- Anything else I should look at changing or upgrading while I have it apart?

- Tyler I know you got yours all nice and polished when you did your rebuild, where/how did you do that?

[CSM]

Hy vs hx is the exhaust housing from what I recall, not compressor.  

[notlimah]

Ok so there's no compressor in these turbos? Or it's just not called a compressor housing?

Either way I'll be taking off the forward most part that connects to the intake (obviously) and the rear section that's connected to the exhaust manifold and exhaust down pipe right? 

This goes to show I'm way more of a visual learner haha I can remember all the parts but not what they're called 

[CTcummins24V]

You have to swap the entire turbo, it's not hard. NO mix/match parts. The HY and HX used different connections to attach to the center section and have different center sections.

First pic is an HY, held on by a ring on the compressor side(intake) and v-band clamp on the turbine side(exhaust).

Others pics are HY next to WH1C(HX35), that uses a band clamp on the compressor and straps on the turbine end. 

Plus the waste gates won't swap over.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by CTcummins24V

[Mopar1973Man]

4 hours ago, CTcummins24V said:

Others pics are HY next to WH1C(HX35),

Typo?? H1C Turbo doesn't have a wastegate also its 21cm² exhaust housing. HX35 is a 12cm² with a wastegate.

 

[TFaoro]

12 hours ago, notlimah said:

So I've come to my senses a bit thanks to @TFaoro and have decided that I need to cannibalize my fleet and throw the HX that's in my 99 into the 02 since that's the truck that's staying for the long haul. Now, with that being said, I do have some questions.

- Do I take out the entire thing?! (turbine & compressor housings n such?)

- I figure I should get a rebuild kit for the HX since I know it's never been done, anything else besides the basic kit DAP sells?

- Anything else I should look at changing or upgrading while I have it apart?

- Tyler I know you got yours all nice and polished when you did your rebuild, where/how did you do that?

If it were me I'd swap the whole thing. Just unbolt it from the manifold, exhaust, charge pipe, and drain pipe. 

All you should need is the T3 gasket between the manifold and turbo, and the oil drain gasket. Ebay usually has these cheap.

If there is no abnormal shaft play don't worry about rebuilding it. No need to fix what isn't broken!

You can pick up a boost elbow for it while you have it apart.

I polished mine myself. Air grinder and a LOT of sand paper. If you really want to do it send me a text and I'll explain better. Hopefully the smarty shows up today  

[notlimah]

50 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

If it were me I'd swap the whole thing. Just unbolt it from the manifold, exhaust, charge pipe, and drain pipe. 

All you should need is the T3 gasket between the manifold and turbo, and the oil drain gasket. Ebay usually has these cheap.

If there is no abnormal shaft play don't worry about rebuilding it. No need to fix what isn't broken!

You can pick up a boost elbow for it while you have it apart.

I polished mine myself. Air grinder and a LOT of sand paper. If you really want to do it send me a text and I'll explain better. Hopefully the smarty shows up today  

Ok that was mainly my biggest question. If I can literally unbolt the entire thing from both trucks and swap it, then easy peasy. I'll look up those part numbers for the gaskets to make sure I get the right one.

What's defined as 'abnormal shaft play?' I'm typically a if it aint broke don't fix it mentality but I figure for 50 bucks I might as well. I thought about the boost elbow after I posted, will definitely pick one up as well.

I'll have to talk to you more about the polish job, and I'm still at work but the Smarty should be waiting in the mail box when I get home!  

**EDIT**

I was doing some searching on CF and a lot of people were saying that upgrading to the HX40 wheels were a good idea to flow more air, but I wasn't sure if that required machining the housing at all. Is there a straight drop in wheel that will work better then the stock HX?

Edited March 23, 2016 by notlimah

[CSM]

5 minutes ago, notlimah said:

I was doing some searching on CF and a lot of people were saying that upgrading to the HX40 wheels were a good idea to flow more air, but I wasn't sure if that required machining the housing at all. Is there a straight drop in wheel that will work better then the stock HX?

That is making a hybrid HX35/40.  I haven't done it but I do have one and I am not sure the procedure for the swap.  Not a bad turbo, but it isn't my 62 by a long way.  

[notlimah]

Ah ok, so there's really not HX35 upgrade wheel, your just putting in the HX40 wheel. Makes sense, but you know how most of the CF posts go, a lot of things get put out but it doesn't always add up! I think I'd eventually like to go the same route as you with the 62 if/when I ever upgrade to a bigger turbo.

[TFaoro]

22 minutes ago, notlimah said:

Ok that was mainly my biggest question. If I can literally unbolt the entire thing from both trucks and swap it, then easy peasy. I'll look up those part numbers for the gaskets to make sure I get the right one.

What's defined as 'abnormal shaft play?' I'm typically a if it aint broke don't fix it mentality but I figure for 50 bucks I might as well. I thought about the boost elbow after I posted, will definitely pick one up as well.

I'll have to talk to you more about the polish job, and I'm still at work but the Smarty should be waiting in the mail box when I get home!  

**EDIT**

I was doing some searching on CF and a lot of people were saying that upgrading to the HX40 wheels were a good idea to flow more air, but I wasn't sure if that required machining the housing at all. Is there a straight drop in wheel that will work better then the stock HX?

There should be a spec somewhere for the amount of movement. I go by the rule of thumb though: Zero in-out movement and as long as the compressor wheel isn't contacting the housing don't worry about it.

To buy the gaskets I use ebay with free shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Gasket-Kit-Holset-HX35-Divided-Turbine-Flange-Oil-Feed-Drain-Cummins-/170969472998?hash=item27ce931fe6:m:myznUwIcBPNZDQFS9xnZMdw&vxp=mtr

With what you have done I wouldn't worry about changing wheels or anything yet.

[CSM]

37 minutes ago, notlimah said:

Ah ok, so there's really not HX35 upgrade wheel, your just putting in the HX40 wheel. Makes sense, but you know how most of the CF posts go, a lot of things get put out but it doesn't always add up! I think I'd eventually like to go the same route as you with the 62 if/when I ever upgrade to a bigger turbo.

To be honest, there are times I wish it was all still stock aside from the fuel system upgrade and a small tuner like a edge or smarty.  Though, when I reflash my truck back to stock with a smarty it is quite doggy by comparison.  I really like the setup now with the 62 and 125 sac injectors, although it does get a bit hazy at times which some attiribute to the SAC injectors.  My old 2000 5sp drove really nice with the HX, RV injectors and an Edge chip.  

If I were to start over from a stock auto truck, I would probably end up about the same place I am now or I would have a adrunio controlled turbo like Nick has.  If I were starting from a stock manual, I would probably stick with the stock turbo and just put bigger injectors in due to turbo cost.  However, doing all the upgrades at once can feel expensive.  Trans is expensive, but every auto or clutch will need rebuilt eventually.  Air is expensive and needs injectors to go along with it along with some chip or programmer.  I've done it as parts have worn out, so it wasn't so bad. Trans needed redone, so I overbuilt it a little, injectors were missing so I replaced them and the turbo at the same time.  

My outlook on the truck is different than most though, as I want fast enough to negotiate traffic with ease, but I don't want to be breaking too many parts long term.  

A note on injectors, there are a lot of different injectors and each manufacturer seems to make different stuff.  Some are dirty, some are cleaner, some have 7 holes, some have 6, some are honed, some are VCO, some are SAC, all of them run differently.  Recently there has been some interesting discussion that has changed the old rule that big injectors mean poor mileage.  I know TFaoro has been getting great mileage with his twins and sewer pipe injectors.  With the new features on the Adrenaline and potentially the Smarty UDC, it might make more sense to go to larger injectors than one would traditionally for a given amount of air available.  

Edited March 23, 2016 by CSM

[notlimah]

Good points. I'm pretty close to you in thinking about these trucks. I'd prefer something better then stock, be able to get up and go pretty easily, but not at the risk of smoking out intersections or putting extra crazy strain on parts. I still DD the truck and plan to continue that, so that's why I've set my power limits to 4-450hp.

The only reason I'm even doing and messing with the turbo now is I'm going to sell the 99 once I salvage what I want off of it so figured I should do it sooner then later. I'm still in the process of getting my suspension/steering cleaned up, then it's time to start saving for a trans... THEN I'll look more into da powa!

[TFaoro]

You guys are just over here doggin on my higher HP build 

[CTcummins24V]

8 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Typo?? H1C Turbo doesn't have a wastegate also its 21cm² exhaust housing. HX35 is a 12cm² with a wastegate.

 

Early model hx35. Crossover year, found on 94-95 automatics

6 hours ago, CSM said:

That is making a hybrid HX35/40.  I haven't done it but I do have one and I am not sure the procedure for the swap.  Not a bad turbo, but it isn't my 62 by a long way.  

Need to machine the housing for the bigger wheel or get a new wheel and housing. HX40 is usually a 60mm wheel. Hx35 is either a 54mm or 56mm. I did a hybrid, it was a surge queen. Not worth it in my opinion. All about your right foot and setting on the box and you can burn clean and cool...unless you have massive injectors. And proper shifitng when loaded

[War Eagle]

16 hours ago, CTcummins24V said:

.....................................................

I did a hybrid, it was a surge queen. Not worth it in my opinion. .................................

I wonder if there was something else going on with your hybrid or truck.

I did the hybrid with RV275 injectors and Quadzilla ZXT with 4" exhaust and I have a completely different truck than the stock HX35.

Everyone that drives it comments on it being a real "jackrabbit"

I have posi in the rear with auto and I can easily spin the wheels in a non boosted launch.

Couldn't come close to that before the injectors and turbo.   No lag, no surge no strange behavior.  No smoke.  Push the go pedal on the line or when passing and you are off to the races!

[CTcummins24V]

17 hours ago, War Eagle said:

I wonder if there was something else going on with your hybrid or truck.

I did the hybrid with RV275 injectors and Quadzilla ZXT with 4" exhaust and I have a completely different truck than the stock HX35.

Everyone that drives it comments on it being a real "jackrabbit"

I have posi in the rear with auto and I can easily spin the wheels in a non boosted launch.

Couldn't come close to that before the injectors and turbo.   No lag, no surge no strange behavior.  No smoke.  Push the go pedal on the line or when passing and you are off to the races!

I couldn't tell you. Upgrading from a 56mm to a 60mm compressor without changing the exhaust side is suspect. First I ran a 12cm gated housing, it surged when on the throttle. Then ran a 14cm non gated and it still surged. Then a year later I ran a 58mm wheel with no surging issues, but I didn't gain much at all. But, when that 60mm wheel was in, it lit so fast and hit hard!  

[Cowboy]

There are a couple different flavors of HX40 compressor wheel.  So it could have to do with which one you had.

[notlimah]

Well I finally got around to getting the HX out and the wheel is rock solid. No oil was leaking out of anywhere so I think I'll leave the rebuild alone for now. 

 

With that being said, what are my do's and dont's?! I want to clean it up a bit but don't want to do anything to damage it or anything.

 

Can I take a soft wire brush and clean external bits up? Air it off? 

 

I have a couple things going on inside that I'm not too sure about. 

 

 

Is that edge that I'm point at ok? Also on the wheel you can see what almost looks like paint, it'll peel off the wheel with a finger nail but how else could I clean it off and get all the debri out?

[JOHNFAK]

It's fine ;) 

If you really want to ....

Q-tip with some solvent just keep it from going behind comp wheel. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by JOHNFAK

[notlimah]

Cool that's what I figured. I talked with my dad and he thinks the paint is there from factory where they used a strobe to check the timing/speed. 

 

I'll give it a good air hose cleaning before putting it back in. After I get a boost elbow that is!