NV5600 Fluid, Fast Coolers, Filter

[Dieselfuture]

Here is a picture I just took, it's 75f outside, and my speed on hwy was 75 mph. Defiantly hotter then the other day driving 60-65. I probably wouldn't put filter on if it was a 5 speed but having these synchros and not having clean oil worries me a bit. After I'll put few thousand miles on it I'll take filter out and see just what it does, will take pictures and let you all know. But it may be a while. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by Dieselfuture

[AH64ID]

The case of my NV5600 was above 185° after 1,000 miles at 75-85 for most of the day (under 15 hours elapsed) and when I measured the case temp it was 95° outside. I wasn't towing but I was moving! I spent less than 30 minutes parked over a 15 hour day so there was a long heat building period. 

 

I only hit one spot with the laser temp gun so it may have been warmer or cooler in other places. I'll try to get a couple  external readings after another long drive. 

[Cowboy]

I got around to throwing something together, now I just need to install it on the transmission, and install the transmission in the truck.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone have a suggestion on micron filter to run on this thing?  it uses a 3/4-16 thread and a maximum of 2.9" O-ring OD.  I'm not sure exactly how long of a filter I can accommodate at this point.

[AH64ID]

Since you are using a pressure filter in a non-pressurized application I would get something in the 20-30 range, basically a cheap OEM filter and not any of the higher shelf stuff. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I'd be interested in seeing if the of the gear spinning is enough to make oil flow through the filter. I'd love to see a filter after say 50k or 100k miles. Being that there is not much pressure I would have to say go with a generic filter of some sort being that if its too fine of a micron rating it might just plug up and stop filter early. Since there is no pressure to force it into bypass mode or to push oil through the filter.

[Cowboy]

I'm currently thinking on a WIX 51410, I don't think I want a 'drain-back valve' due to the pressure loss that comes with it, but that really narrows down my options.  I really want to do some testing as to how much pressure/flow this will do.  If I could get a couple PSI I would be happy.

 

The outlet of the filter is opposite of the inlet, in hopes it will help pull the fluid through the filter... don't know if it's going to work.

 

 

 

 

[AH64ID]

If you get 0.2psig I would be surprised. 

[Cowboy]

Ye of little faith!!!

[AH64ID]

Just looking at it logically. You don't have anything to create flow and in an open system no flow means no pressure. Think about how slowly a filter fills when you pour oil into it. 

 

Additinally what's going to keep any contaminates you somehow catch in the filter? Without pressure/flow there isn't going to be anything holding the contaminates against the media or even flowing the same way each time. Baffles don't do much without flow. 

 

If you want to filter the NV5600 you are going to need a pump. Anything is a waste of time and money, IMHO. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by AH64ID

[Mopar1973Man]

I think it will change characteristics when the oil is hot say 170-190*F the viscosity of the oil is much thinner so it might flow through a filter pretty good. I'd still aim slightly bigger in micron rating say 30-35 maybe... Being there is so little pressure going into that filter your going to have to have a media that is not very restrictive flow wise. I see what AH64ID is after but I also see your idea too.

[Cowboy]

 

 

I know where you're coming from John.  If it doesn't work, I'm out the cost of a filter and $7 for a PTO cover.  But that's a null factor cause this is in the name of science!!!  The inlet is above the filter so hopefully nothing makes its way back out.

 

I was originally going to ditch this idea and go straight to the pump setup, but I figured that if fuller makes something that works on the same principles, then they are either catering to the idiots like myself, or it might actually work.  I understand that the filter is of a different design, so maybe that's the secret ingredient.

 

Besides, this matches the rest of my illogical mods.

 

I was looking for a slightly larger micron rating, but the only other one I could find was a 57490 which is 40 micron and it's physically a bit smaller than the 51410 which is 21 micron.  This is looking only at WIX filters without a drain-back valve.

 

It will be a long while before I get any kind of test results, but regardless of what they are, I'll let you know how it goes.

[CSM]

I like your sense of adventure, cowboy.  Haha.

[KATOOM]

I too fully appreciate your ingenuity Cowboy.  But.....sorry I agree with all the naysayers, its not going to work.

 

As others have pointed out, there's no pressure within the housing other than the temperature differences, so therefore nothing to push the fluid into the filter.  Metal particulates wont simply travel into the filter because its there.  Maybe if you had a really strong neodymium magnet stuck on the very end of the filter it would give reason for any floating metallic debris to find its way in there.  But at the very least what you've created is a heat sink for dissipation as it hangs out in the open air.  Thats worth something right there.....

In your defense, any changes in temperature from that heat dissipation inside the filter may cause a slight and very slow pumping affect.....but again, I doubt it would do anything.

 

In case you havent seen them, there are pressurized PTO fluid pump systems for transmissions.  They're not cheap but they will create a fully pressurized gear fluid pump whereby you'd have to tap into the housing for a supply and return line and plumb in a cooler.  Heck, there's even electric gear fluid pumps people commonly use for differential racing applications but since we're talking about the PTO.....

 

Obviously we agree that this would be completely unnecessary too unless you were unable to maintain transmission fluid temps well above 225*.

Edited May 23, 2016 by KATOOM

[AH64ID]

I am not sure that the heat sink will even work as well as an open bath cooler like the FAST cooler, but it should dissipate more heat than a PTO cover. 

[Mopar1973Man]

16 hours ago, KATOOM said:

Obviously we agree that this would be completely unnecessary too unless you were unable to maintain transmission fluid temps well above 225*.

 

I agree if your constantly seeing temps above 220-230*F then I'd be looking at fast coolers or pump and external cooler.

[Cowboy]

Fast Coolers - $164.99 / 2 =  $84.85

DIY Filter... Thing - $6.88 + $14 = $20.88

 

$84.85 / $20.88 = 4.06

 

So as long as this thing cools a 1/4 as good as a fast cooler, Success!

[KATOOM]

There's always a silver lining.

[Cowboy]

It's been a while but I finally installed the transmission that this filter goes on, and thus installed the filter!  The transmission had some issues, so I've only got 397.8 miles of easy driving on this filter setup.  I made two 100 mile round trips, that were for the most part going 55 in 5th (G56 so that's straight through).  And then some shorter 40 and 10 mile trips.  I never saw the fluid temp over 150°F, so the molasses-like 50 SAE fluid never thinned out as much as it could have.  The filter I had installed was a WIX 51068 just because I had it on hand, I plan to install a WIX 57490 which is slightly shorter and has a 40 micron rating instead of 21.

 

That being said, when I uninstalled the whole filter assembly and let it drain, I noticed that the fluid coming out of the dirty side had sparkles, while the fluid draining out of the clean side was sparkle free!  I then cut open the filter and while there was a little bit of sparkles in the media, it wasn't anything to write home about, but then I looked at the oil that I drained from the filter!

 

 

I would be a little more concerned, but because 350 of the miles on the filter were before I did a full disassembly, a lot of those sparkles are likely from before I owned the transmission due to the design of the synchronizer assemblies the worn brass likes to build-up on the inner synchro ring.  I will also mention that the fluid I drained out of the trasmission had some sparkle to it, but not nearly as much as shown above.

 

While it's not a complete no-brainer, I'm tempted to call this a sucsess!  Once summer gets here, and with it the heavy hualing, I have to believe it will work even better.

[Mopar1973Man]

With the winter weather here I've quit looking at the transmission temp gauge. I never get it to move now. Stuck on 100*F even in long trips to Boise, ID. It's been minus weather in New Meadows most of the time. Won't even warm up idling after a long ride either. 

[TFaoro]

I've never seen temps over 130-140 when it's hot, but mine does warm up well. When it was -4*F running 75 trans temp got up to 105 or so. I haven't looked into filters, but when summer comes I am going to change the oil again.