NV4500 and 50 SAE GL-4 Synthetic Trans Fluid

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got enough power to pull the RV as low as 1,200 as a absolute bottom below that the engine stuggles way too much.

[KATOOM]

I wont use 5th (OD) ever while towing unless its relatively light weight, like a rowboat.  But thats just me.....

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, KATOOM said:

I wont use 5th (OD) ever while towing unless its relatively light weight, like a rowboat.  But thats just me.....

I don't know why? Final gear is basically the same on all Transmissions. 47re, nv4500, or nv5600.

[KATOOM]

Because of two reasons.....

1) Any OD ratio will generate more heat and place added stress on other bearings over that of 1:1.

2) With the 5th gear issues being rather prevalent from adding stress and shock load to that weaker designed gear/shaft, I dont care to run the risk.

Not to mention that towing most trailers in 5th gear lowers the RPM's lessens air flow, lowers oil pressure, and raises EGT's.  Which is generally my guide to whether or not I can tow in 5th gear.  If the weight is heavy enough to cause the EGT's to hover above 900* consistently then the load is simply too great for that gear.....for me.

[Mopar1973Man]

Normally I run more in the 1,500 to 2,000 bracket. I tend to be close to you Katoom in gear usage. Like most of the winding canyon roads I'll use 4th because I can work with exhaust to control corner to corner speeds. Flat ground running I typically run 5th at 60 MPH typically my ST tires are only rated for 65 MPH.

As for perimeter I'm just bit higher I limit to 1,000 flat ground. Grades is not different with speed, rpm, and perimeter come into play on which gear, speed etc is used.

A rise in temperatures is sign of inefficient driving style or pushing excessively hard.

[AH64ID]

Unless I am going downhill I don't grab 6th until about 65 and preferably 70. It just runs better in 5th at 2400 than 6th at 1800 with the weight/drag I tow at. Drag is the biggest thing as I recently was at 26K GCW with a dump trailer and 6th was running great at 1600-1700. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Like today I was paying attention to when I throw gears. I typically throw gears near 2,000 mostly under. Next gear up ends up landing near 1,200 to 1,300 range. Normally accelerate light in the throttle. Now if I was pulling for power yes wind it up tighter more towards 2,500. The RV has some weight but rolls rather easy. Comparing to Dave with his huge 5th wheel that stands another 4 feet higher than travel trailer. So etween him having such more wind drag and more weight I can see him running much higher to rev it in the torque band.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[KATOOM]

Agreed in that I have to shift considerably higher in the RPM range simply because the drag and weight my trailer places on the truck is just too high for me to even consider idling through the gears.  I drive very mellow and in low RPM's while cruising around without a load but when I have something heavy back there I clearly have to work the engine to keep the entire driveline happy.

[Mopar1973Man]

Another thing I'm looking at 8s 5he common Joe that is driving to and from work that is less than 20 miles I would have to say the 50 SAE is much better MPG wise than 75w-85 because there is way less drag.

[Cowboy]

I've noticed this with even how people drive my trucks as well as their own.  People that drive straight pipe trucks generally lug the crap out of them.  Just cause it sounds like you're killing it, doesn't mean you are.  Our trucks will make torque, but they don't necessarily like it.  And the rest of the driveline for sure doesn't.  I only go into 5th above 1500 RPM.  Below 1750 RPM I try to keep boost below 10 psi.  On an on ramp, I'll accelerate to 60-65MPH in 4th then pop it in 5th to cruise.  

 

I love good MPG, but more than that I love MP$.

 

I hit peak torque around 1400 RPM, but you won't find me asking for that power or cruising around that low in the RPM.

 

That's good to hear about the MPG increase with 50W, I hope to swap to 50W myself before to long as well.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Cowboy

[KATOOM]

Actually peak torque on these engines runs an amazing RPM gap from 1600-2700 whereby the torque curve is almost completely flat. These engines are towing monsters.....

[Cowboy]

EDIT:  I guess when you say "these engines" you're referring to the 24V, so I'll just keep my trap shut.  

[KATOOM]

1 minute ago, Cowboy said:

EDIT:  I guess when you say "these engines" you're referring to the 24V, so I'll just keep my trap shut.  

 

Ya dont have to keep the trap shut because yes I meant the 24 valve. 

The 12 valve has a torque curve between 1600 - 2300 (approx), but the automatic transmission 12 valve was odd with a curve that started around 1300 and fell off fast from there.  Not sure why either.

 

 

[leathermaneod]

My dad had a 93' 12v with an auto. He didn't have any tuning done to the pump or anything, but it always had way less power than he had hoped. Finally figured out it had a boost leak, but then the frame rotted out. The thing was totally gutless though. Driving it around you never know it even had a turbo at all. It sounded sick though. I really wish he still had that thing. 

[AH64ID]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Like today I was paying attention to when I throw gears. I typically throw gears near 2,000 mostly under. Next gear up ends up landing near 1,200 to 1,300 range. Normally accelerate light in the throttle. Now if I was pulling for power yes wind it up tighter more towards 2,500. The RV has some weight but rolls rather easy. Comparing to Dave with his huge 5th wheel that stands another 4 feet higher than travel trailer. So etween him having such more wind drag and more weight I can see him running much higher to rev it in the torque band.

 

It's probably not 4' higher considering your camper is 11'3", per Jayco, and max leagal road height is 13'6"....

 

Generally speaking 5th wheels actually have less drag than a travel trailer as there isn't the air gap between the tailgate and front of the TT.. a canopy will reduce that effect but a 10K 5th wheel will almost always pull easier than a 10K TT. 

 

Throw extra long shank's into the mix, I run an 18", and drag increases a LOT. I recall losing ±2 mpg towing a popup trailer with a Tacoma when I went from a 6" to a 12" shank. Imagine what a long shank on a TT does. 

 

Empty I shift around 2K and towing I shift around 2300-2500 depending on my desired rate of acceleration. 

 

My TT is harder to pull, thanks to drag, at 18K GCW than a dump trailer at 26K GCW on the flats. 

[dripley]

I had to make an emergency trip home today and hate i missed all of this. My GCW is near 23k with the 5th wheel in tow from a standing start I run my lower gears different than the upper gears. 1st thru 3rd I dont wind it as tight. A shift around 2k rpm works great pulls good. 4th gets wound up to about 2200 to 2300, then 5th I am looking for about 24 or 2500. Not doing this by the torque/hp graphs just the butt dyno and how it feels getting up to speed. My lower gears just work better a lower rpm than the upper ones towing. Empty I keep the rpm lower unless  getting on the interstate or just having a little fun. 

 

 I have also pretty much always towed in 6th. As long as I can maintain my speed at 1/2 throttle on an incline, flat ground is never problem. EGTs stay around 850 IIRC on level ground, maybe 1150 on 1 or 2% grade, again IIRC. The only time I towed without using it was when new. It would barely pull on flat ground then and I was 3k lighter then. It was only after I got some miles on the engine that I could really use OD while towing

1 hour ago, AH64ID said:

 

It's probably not 4' higher considering your camper is 11'3", per Jayco, and max leagal road height is 13'6"....

 

Generally speaking 5th wheels actually have less drag than a travel trailer as there isn't the air gap between the tailgate and front of the TT.. a canopy will reduce that effect but a 10K 5th wheel will almost always pull easier than a 10K TT. 

 

Throw extra long shank's into the mix, I run an 18", and drag increases a LOT. I recall losing ±2 mpg towing a popup trailer with a Tacoma when I went from a 6" to a 12" shank. Imagine what a long shank on a TT does. 

 

Empty I shift around 2K and towing I shift around 2300-2500 depending on my desired rate of acceleration. 

 

My TT is harder to pull, thanks to drag, at 18K GCW than a dump trailer at 26K GCW on the flats. 

I guess I will have to pay a little more attention to some TT. I never would have guessed Mike's trailer was that tall. Mine is 12'8" tall according to Cardinal. That leaves me over 6' above that cab and creates alot of drag. Never pulled a TT to see what difference there is in the drag. Not sure how the air flows over the bed with the 5th wheel in tow.  Saw some stuff on myth buster about it when they were trying to see what gave better mileage, tail gate up or down.

[Killer223]

http://swepcolube.com/products/swepco-711-sae-50wt-synthetic-transmission-fluid

 

worth looking into.

[leathermaneod]

Has anyone out there run the Mobil 50wt in their NV4500 long term?

[Mopar1973Man]

55 minutes ago, leathermaneod said:

Has anyone out there run the Mobil 50wt in their NV4500 long term?

 

You could go over and ask High Gear Transmissions.

http://highgeartransmission.com/

 

Or...

Abe at Weller Truck (208) 331-1061

[leathermaneod]

Thanks for that! I saw it on high gears website, but I'd love to talk to Weller truck though. I'm just concerned about the possible effects of running this fluid long term, and even more importantly for me, switching to it at high mileage. I think I'll give Abe a call.