Manual Trans Conversion - Seeking Advice/Tips/Issues/etc

[NightHawk]

Hello Everyone,

 

Well over Memorial Day Weekend the 47re began its slide to the point of no return on my way back from my camping trip.  I knew this day would come when I purchased the truck (mechanical items don't last forever) so its no real surprise (still feels like this though ).  Taking that into consideration, I have always planned to convert my rig over to manual as I am a 3 peddle guy.  I am not concerned with the $$ (sort of) but am really concerned about doing it right with a solid end product.  I decided on the nv4500, so I will be needing help from all of you 5 speed owners (or past 5 spds).  

 

The goal of this thread is to seek knowledge from those who performed the conversion and for getting items clarified prior to the truck being torn down.  My timeline is to have the conversion complete for m Aug camping/fishing trip so i better get on it !

 

Thanks in advance and this week I am creating the shopping list which I plan to post for advice/confirmation.  The first links below is what I am considering, any thoughts?

 

http://www.high-impact.net/NV4500 into an 94 and Up Dodge Truck with 5.9L Cummins.htm

 

http://www.midwesttrans.com/Dodge_ Auto_NV4500_5_Speed_Conversion_Transmission.html

 

 

[TFaoro]

Both kits look good! They are expensive though. IF you have the money I would go with the kit. That way you've got new parts in there. It would probably be cheaper to piece together a kit, but you may miss something and end up having to wait on parts. 

[notlimah]

Uh oh.... this isn't good news for me. 

 

I was planning on taking mine to Dynamic sometime in the future, but I've always wanted a manual, and I didn't know kits were available, and around-ish the same price as an upgraded 47! 

 

Now I have to decide if I'm capable of doing the swap and have the time! 

 

Hmmmm 

 

[joecool911]

You'll need a PCM, ECM for manual too. This is not a complete kit.

[Mopar1973Man]

On 6/8/2016 at 3:57 AM, joecool911 said:

You'll need a PCM, ECM for manual too. This is not a complete kit.

 

Not to mention change of wiring harness.

[TFaoro]

Talk to @gh0stman either here or on CF. He did this exact swap and can tell you what you NEED. I don't think all of the information you're getting here is correct.

[joecool911]

People have been known to shortcut. But you'll get codes and check engine light if you don't change out the ECM and PCM. 

 

Jonathan 1950 used to be here and did the conversion in short cut way. I've not seen him lately here. Would be interesting to hear from him.

Edited June 9, 2016 by joecool911

[TFaoro]

ECM can be flashed.

[joecool911]

45 minutes ago, TFaoro said:

ECM can be flashed.

 

Well, that's a new ECM then. Just saying it needs to be dealt with. 

 

Im not against the conversion. In fact I'd like to do it myself. Just have come to the conclusion that it might be better to buy one that's factory that way...unless you own a truck that has a dead automatic. Then you gotta do something. I'd love to put all the parts together and go visit Michael and have him help. Then we'd have a really good article and info on the subject. Maybe I can do a gofundme for the money to do it????

 

If if you guys want to put together a complete list of necessary parts, we could have it for future use. Break down the kit into components necessary as well for those who don't go that way. 

 

Then there is the steering column to deal with...shifter and gear indicator in the dash. Optional and cosmetic of course. Then there is your title. Mine designates "automatic." So if you go to sell it, not sure it's going to be worth what a titled manual would be worth??? 

Edited June 9, 2016 by joecool911

[TFaoro]

42 minutes ago, joecool911 said:

 

Well, that's a new ECM then. Just saying it needs to be dealt with. 

 

Im not against the conversion. In fact I'd like to do it myself. Just have come to the conclusion that it might be better to buy one that's factory that way...unless you own a truck that has a dead automatic. Then you gotta do something. I'd love to put all the parts together and go visit Michael and have him help. Then we'd have a really good article and info on the subject. Maybe I can do a gofundme for the money to do it????

 

If if you guys want to put together a complete list of necessary parts, we could have it for future use. Break down the kit into components necessary as well for those who don't go that way. 

 

Then there is the steering column to deal with...shifter and gear indicator in the dash. Optional and cosmetic of course. Then there is your title. Mine designates "automatic." So if you go to sell it, not sure it's going to be worth what a titled manual would be worth??? 

A new ECM is north of 1K. A smarty file is free.... But yes it needs taken care of

 

For the rest of the truck, donor parts from a junk yard should be easy to find. (Petals, steering column, etc.)

[NightHawk]

I am open to doing an article write up on the conversion. I have a parts list and brief steps already created from online research. Will post details and gray area questions later

[98whitelightnin]

I have done the swap and you wouldn't have know my truck was ever an automatic unless you saw the heat exchanger or looked under the dash at the shift stuff on the column. You do not need a wiring harness or ECM/pcm. If you want the idle up feature so you cannot kill the engine no matter how fast you let out the clutch, then you will need an ECM or like suggested, have smarty write you a 5 speed file or get one from me. Swap was simple but I would do it with a G56 if I did it again.

[NightHawk]

This is my parts list of what I need to buy (or think) and what items on my truck I can reuse.  I am seeking feedback/assistance to help steer me in the right direction!  

Need to Purchase/Acquire:

 

•  NV4500 Bellhousing
• Bellhosuing Components (clutch fork, pivot ball, etc)
• NV4500 Clutch & Flywheel
• Clutch Hydraulics
• Brake & Clutch Pedal Assembly
• NNV4500 (Trans Itself)
• NV4500 shift Tower
• NV4500 Shifter
• NV4500 Trans Mount
• NV4500 Neural Safety Switch
• NV4500 Back-up Light Switch
• NV4500 to NP241 HDH 29 Spline Impute Shaft
• NV4500 Lower & Upper Boot Assembly
• Front Driveshaft (have to verify at time of install)

 

Parts Being Reused:

 

• ·         Transmission Crossmember from 47re (research says they’re the same)
• ·         Transfercase (I have an NP241DH)
• ·         Rear Driveshaft (have to verify at time of install)
• ·         Steering Column (remove shift leaverfrom column)
• ·         ECM with no reflash (have to verify)
• ·         PCM with no reflash (have to verify)
• ·         Main Harness

Edited June 10, 2016 by NightHawk

[Mopar1973Man]

ECM would have to reflashed there is changes in software regarding throttling and launching. Auto's don't have the anti-stall feature of a manual ECM. PCM has to be reflashed because of the hunting for all the governor pressure sensor, governor solenoid, and other electrical features of the automatic which would create issues. There is no neutral safety switch on a manual. the only wires going to the transmission is reverse switch for lighting. There is several things are different wiring wise depending on model year cruise control is fly by wire vs vacuum driven, clutch safety should be a jump wire but not certain all years have the plug. Like on the automatics will require a safety jumper as well if the option is present. Then the reason I suggest change of harness I know the automatic wiring will just be hanging around it would much cleaner to have the proper wiring and not ahack job. with zip-tied wires everywhere.

 

[TFaoro]

16 hours ago, 98whitelightnin said:

I have done the swap and you wouldn't have know my truck was ever an automatic unless you saw the heat exchanger or looked under the dash at the shift stuff on the column. You do not need a wiring harness or ECM/pcm. If you want the idle up feature so you cannot kill the engine no matter how fast you let out the clutch, then you will need an ECM or like suggested, have smarty write you a 5 speed file or get one from me. Swap was simple but I would do it with a G56 if I did it again.

 

9 hours ago, NightHawk said:

This is my parts list of what I need to buy (or think) and what items on my truck I can reuse.  I am seeking feedback/assistance to help steer me in the right direction!  

Need to Purchase/Acquire:

 

•  NV4500 Bellhousing
• Bellhosuing Components (clutch fork, pivot ball, etc)
• NV4500 Clutch & Flywheel
• Clutch Hydraulics
• Brake & Clutch Pedal Assembly
• NNV4500 (Trans Itself)
• NV4500 shift Tower
• NV4500 Shifter
• NV4500 Trans Mount
• NV4500 Neural Safety Switch
• NV4500 Back-up Light Switch
• NV4500 to NP241 HDH 29 Spline Impute Shaft
• NV4500 Lower & Upper Boot Assembly
• Front Driveshaft (have to verify at time of install)

 

Parts Being Reused:

 

• ·         Transmission Crossmember from 47re (research says they’re the same)
• ·         Transfercase (I have an NP241DH)
• ·         Rear Driveshaft (have to verify at time of install)
• ·         Steering Column (remove shift leaverfrom column)
• ·         ECM with no reflash (have to verify)
• ·         PCM with no reflash (have to verify)
• ·         Main Harness

IF you're buying a kit, I'd hope the transmission comes with all of those components.

Who are you thinking for the clutch?

Driveshafts might be okay. I don't know the exact dimensions of the two transmissions though.

Like Mike said, the neutral safety switch is not on the trans. It's actually part of the hydraulics assembly and petal assembly.

[CTcummins24V]

Need different linkage from 4x4 shifter to transfer case?

[joecool911]

Sounds like a one day job then.

[NightHawk]

On 6/10/2016 at 7:15 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

ECM would have to reflashed there is changes in software regarding throttling and launching. Auto's don't have the anti-stall feature of a manual ECM. PCM has to be reflashed because of the hunting for all the governor pressure sensor, governor solenoid, and other electrical features of the automatic which would create issues. There is no neutral safety switch on a manual. the only wires going to the transmission is reverse switch for lighting. There is several things are different wiring wise depending on model year cruise control is fly by wire vs vacuum driven, clutch safety should be a jump wire but not certain all years have the plug. Like on the automatics will require a safety jumper as well if the option is present. Then the reason I suggest change of harness I know the automatic wiring will just be hanging around it would much cleaner to have the proper wiring and not ahack job. with zip-tied wires everywhere.

 

I really dislike the anti-stall feature on my daily, so if that can be avoid by not reflashing then . I have a vacuum cruise setup on my truck (early 01).  The NSS from the wiring seems to be on the auto trans vs. clutch assembly (makes sense) so my plan is to either extend the wiring to the clutch or extend the wires to a push button in the cab (little anti-left device too). The harness is something i would deal with down the line as it would be a large amount of time i may not have now.

 

On 6/10/2016 at 7:28 AM, TFaoro said:

IF you're buying a kit, I'd hope the transmission comes with all of those components.

Who are you thinking for the clutch?

Driveshafts might be okay. I don't know the exact dimensions of the two transmissions though.

Like Mike said, the neutral safety switch is not on the trans. It's actually part of the hydraulics assembly and petal assembly.

 

I list the components just for everyone's view, the kit comes with everything (including clutch/flywheel).  I plan to take measurements this weekend to confirm current trans position & drive shaft length to get confirmation with someone who has a 5 speed already.

 

20 hours ago, CTcummins24V said:

Need different linkage from 4x4 shifter to transfer case?

 

Was this meant to be a question.....I have ready about 15-20 swap threads and only a few mention T-case linkages (mostly pre-97 swaps) so will investigate.

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by NightHawk

[98whitelightnin]

The front driveshaft will be a little long but it will work and the rear driveshaft will be a little short but it too will work. After the swap, I never could get the t-case output to stop seaping and it might could have been because the driveshaft was a bit short. Everyone I talked to said the pcm cannot be flashed, but the ECM can be done easily unless you don't want the idle up/take off assist feature.  I believe you might have to swap your t-case input but I'm not sure being is you already have a DHD because I swapped trans and t-case. I don't believe I changed my t-case linkage but don't remember. I did change all the pcm harness and all out for a manual harness but only because I'm anal about stuff that doesn't matter.

[NightHawk]

Well....got the shopping list complete and quotes are in my email. Plan to order parts this week!