No Power but with a story!

[C Holmes]

Good day, everyone, I am looking for direction on an issue with my 02 24 v.  I lent it (mistake) guy put 80 litres of gas in it.  It was only run a couple hundred yards to park and pay and then no start.  I had it flat decked home and with no idea of gas did a few checks and figured a vp44 failure.  I did not repair but decided to wait till this summer when camping season started back up. Fast forward (a few months), I bought reman vp44 and proceeded to remove old pump.  In the process I discovered two things, the gas and the fact that the pump had been changed at some point. I believe by a local dealer that is notorious for changing warranty items without customer knowledge. Anyway while putting the reman on at the dealer the mechanic (so called) crushed the key in the pump shaft. It was off by what I consider a lot but the truck worked perfect before the gas incident. I figured at this point the old pump was probably fine cause it was before the gas so why not now?  Gas would not hurt it, it was not run at all.  I ordered new key to match offset required by pump and re-installed.  Truck fired and idles and revs perfect. No codes no other issues except no power and black smoke.  I did discover waste gate stuck from sitting so I freed it up and no change.  I do not think the pump is the culprit. Any ideas?  Boost leak?  Something like that?  Any guidance on where to look and check appreciated.  I have changed fuel and air filters, I have lots of fuel from lift pump (in tank) Black smoke tells me its getting fuel just not burning it. Thanks in advance.

 

Chris

[dripley]

Boost leak like you say. I would go back and check all your connections and boots. Be sure everything is tight and nothing is torn. Probably would not hurt to put some air pressure on it, you can find any leaks easily. I would also get a fuel pressure gauge. My in tank pump caused me lots of heartache. They are notorious for low pressure and that can take out your new VP.

 

Welcome to the forum by they way.

[Mopar1973Man]

 Any error codes? Use a code reader.

 

What is your fuel pressure like?

 

Any rubbed holes or cuts in the boots?

 

What's your boost pressure like?

 

 

[Hawkez]

You didn't leave a rag anywhere inside the intake did you?  I assume you used something to keep things covered while you changed your IP.

[C Holmes]

OK, I am in the process to check turbo, I have ordered a fp gauge. I have the air boot off the air cleaner side and made a block off with a Schrader and gauge for it. I am pressurizing at the turbo side but have massive air leak at that point it seems, I cant build any pressure at all, I have removed the small line from wastegate to eliminate the gate. same thing. I am not sure if this is the correct way to do it tho. It seems to me the air would just flow out the exhaust side but I don't really know. Is this correct?  I can post a pic I think if needed but it is pretty clear what I am attempting. It sounds like air just rushing out of the turbo somewhere.  I had turbo off to free wastegate, is it possible that is still stuck open a bit?  Not sure how to tell if closed or open. 

no codes, no apparent boot leaks anywhere but can't build enough air to find out really. Should the turbo hold pressure? Nothing has changed since parking except wastegate stuck, I freed it or so I thought.  Maybe it is not returning to closed because of rust or whatever. Seems odd to seize open tho, as in the engine not running it would be closed. Maybe actuator is keeping it open, I suspect I will have to remove that and unhook the arm to determine. My big question at the moment is am I doing the pressure test right?

no rags, although good thinking.

[dripley]

Take the snorkel off and pressurize it from there. That sounds like what you are doing. You will not loose any air thru the waste gate. You are pressurizing the intake side. As long as whatever your using to pressurize things is sealed to the turbo good sounds like you have a hefty leak or lots of smaller ones. I would be suspect of anything you took off when installing the VP and the turbo.

[C Holmes]

OK, Did find a big leak on one of the pipes on the cold air intake. I thought that was it. Fixed it and put it back together and still the same no power issue. Seems like it will only wants to rev to 2000 rpm.  Very frustrated. Back to square one. I can pressurize now and no leaks it seems. Not sure where to go now.  

Edited July 9, 2016 by C Holmes

[Mopar1973Man]

How about error codes? There is lots of error codes that do not turn on the check engine light but defuel because of issues.

[dripley]

Codes are helpful as Mike mentions and checked with a code reader as mentioned earlier. If you are using the key trick it does not always show all of the codes.

 

Check your waste gate and be sure it did not stick open again. If it stuck back open again you would loose power and smoke but that should not affect engine revs. 

Edited July 10, 2016 by dripley

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got a funny feeling there is something electronic that is defueling the system causing the lack of power. Then again not all codes will set the check engine light. As for the key trick the only year that it works on is the 2002 correctly. 1998.5 and 1999 don't work at all. Some of the 2000 and 2001 work correctly and other only report the PCM and skip the ECM. So just use a code reader and not have to guess.

[C Holmes]

OK, I put another lift pump on her, I have 20 lbs at idle, I had the MAP out and that did throw a code, I got P1693, P0237 and P0217

I cleared those codes after re installing the MAP sensor, so with lots of fuel pressure from the lift and no codes, no leaks in the turbo anywhere I thought I may have it.....nope, same, a bit better but that may be from the higher fuel pressure to the Inj. pump.  I am really thinking my VP44 is toast. It can't be anything else.

 

[dripley]

 The VP will appear to run fine on to low or to high a pressure. My AD lift pump went out, blew a fuse, and I drove for 60 or more miles with no issues. My oe lift pump went out and the truck just died. My oe VP went out at 75k, loss of power and RPM's but blue smoke and not black. Not sure what was going on and was to naive ti ask.

 

I have to assume from your post that you got you FP gauge or at least a test gauge to read pressure, you are using a code reader for checking and clearing codes and the waste gate is functioning properly with air pressure. What  fuel pressure are you seeing at WOT?

 

If you can warranty the pump and go thru the expense to see it that fixes it, by all means go ahead. Let us know how that works.

 

 

[Mopar1973Man]

Can you validate your fuel pressure at highway speeds? I'm assuming your using a test gauge. I need to know if the fuel pump is keeping up with the demands the VP44 is asking for. If the fuel pressure drops below 10 PSI it starts to get difficult to create power reliably...

[C Holmes]

Well, I can say that the pump (lift) is supplying 20lbs, lots of fuel as far as volume goes. I have removed the turbo again and all is free so I put it back on, I have checked for leaks again and none, Truck (02) has no codes now, just poor acceleration and no power to speak of. I can only assume now must be VP44. The truck worked fine before gas event and only thing that worries is the fact that it has had gas in it for quite a few months or the fact of trying to start while diagnosing. I am thinking without lubrication the gas has damaged something.  I don't think injectors as Cummins mechanic said they normally will cause skip, stumble or hard start of which I have none. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Its possible the gasoline caused some wear in the pump but the only way to find out is to change the VP44 for known good one. $1,100 is a big pill to swallow for most and would really hurt the wallet if you bought a VP44 and still had the same problems. Is that a gamble your willing to try? Personally I would exhaust everything else I could possibly try before putting money on a high dollar item.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Mopar1973Man

[C Holmes]

That is why I am here, trying to determine if there is anything I am missing.  I am in Canada so pump is more like $2000.00 so even more important to try and figure out.  My next plan is to hook up an aux fuel supply/tank and run nice clean diesel and see if that makes a difference. That will eliminate chance of gas still in tank contaminating fuel, lines and all that. 

[Me78569]

I hate to suggest a vp44 without any codes, but honestly running gas through the pump is likely enough to wear out an old pump.  

 

Anyone local do you that you can swap pumps with for a test?  i'd try that personally.  

[JAG1]

After you check the tank for good uncontaminated diesel put some 2 stroke oil in the fuel for added lubricity. Do you have fuel pressure above 14 while trying to accelerate down the road?

[TFaoro]

Almost sounds like the timing on the pump is stuck in a bad spot, but I would think a code would be thrown.

I agree with @Me78569, finding someone to swap pumps with is going to be your best bet.

[C Holmes]

I have 20 lbs at idle but about 10 at throttle. I talked to cummins guy and he said f pressure is not the big deal but volume. I have 2 pumps that will throw a lot of fuel.. I plan to measure volume and compare against spec.  ......anyone know the spec?