In tank, Lift Pump Retrofit

[Bobalos]

Folks,

 

in 2010, I put the Dodge in tank Lift Pump retrofit into my 99.  Its been rock solid since.

 

As some of you might know, I have recently made a bunch of changes to my truck (ECM, Inj Pump, 275 Bosch injectors, 2000 Fuel Filter housing) and this afternoon the lift pump pressure started doing wonky things.  its normally around 18 or 19 @ idle, and 14 or 15 cruising down the highway. 

 

Sunday I took the truck/Trailer/Buggy for a ride to make sure it was happy with the hills around my area & it seemed to be quite happy.  when I got home I put the trailer away & filled up the truck to see what kind of mileage I got (10 BTW). 

 

When I got home I put some of the 2 stroke oil in it & put the truck away.  When I was headed home this evening I noticed that the fuel pressure was lower than I expected it to be, so I whomped on it & it dropping down to 7 or 8 Lbs.  I dont think I have ever seen it that low..........  and to go from 20 Lbs to 7 Lbs is very concerning...

 

so......... Im wondering.........

A: How long do these pumps live?

B: Can a slight leak in #3 injector line (@ the transfer tube), cause this to happen..... 

C: Is there an easy way to pull 33 Gallons of fuel out of the tank?

D: Does anyone make a good in-tank pump?  I know everyone is going to say put a FASS/AirDogg/AFE/ETC, pump on it.  I could but, I do like the in tank option, and if Im going to have to drop the tank to take the OEM pump out, Id like to put another one in. 

E: How long do FASS/AirDogg/AFE pumps live?  10/15 years, 100K/150K?

F: Is there any reason to think that adding the 2 stroke oil into the fuel could cause this?  I cant imagine it would, but thought I would ask;.....

 

thanks Gents.  Im back to hating this truck again.  ROFLOL. 

 

Bob

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Bobalos

[015point9]

If mine first thing I would do is verify fuel psi with another gauge. 

 

Item "C"...For the price of six 5 gallon fuel cans I ended up scouring out a couple newer garbage cans and transferred fuel with cheap harbor freight fluid transfer pump. Then I got some clear vinyl tube and after installing the new lift pump, I cycled fuel with filter on Airdog (FASS is better IMO) over and over.  Not through truck wiring, just from tank through pumps filter and back to tank.  Hooked up directly to battery with inline 20 amp fuse.  Then after everything was back together, changed filters every thousand miles 3 times.  I'm cheap. 

I would try to go 1/2 inch line from bulk head fitting on fuel module to VP44.  My return line dumps right into fuel basket.  But of course other options are to drill for another draw straw or sump.  

 

Which is better FASS or Airdog...I'm not going to bite on that one except to say after my FASS fell apart I had to have mechanic install new pump.  (Pretty hard to drop tank in RV park in Yuma) Mechanic would only install Airdog.  Why only Airdog...because his brother installed a few in Phoenix and my mechanic could Habla espainol with him. That's right language problem in Yuma, AZ.   Worst mechanic I've ever had.  Later correcting lousy install  work the mechanic did , I called Airdog to check out their pump mounting brackets.  Airdog wouldn't  talk to me unless I was a distributor or "authorized mechanic".  Called FASS and got the "tech" department and got questions answered.  I won't touch Airdog again.  

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by 015point9

[Bobalos]

Morning folks,

 

Not sure how many of you caught what I wrote last night (before my edit), Im very frustrated with this truck.  the last 9 or 10 months have been a PITA, & its not all the trucks fault.  

 

I got to thinking about it on the way into work this morning & I have @ least six, fuel jugs, Im sure I can wire up a jumper to turn the lift pump on & pump the fuel out.  

 

I presently have a Mallory 140 bolted to the frame rail that was my lift pump for quite a few years (before it died).  I could go back to that or some other pump, but not sure what to go with.  I will do some research & see what others think.  Ive heard about the "draw straw" before, however dont really know what that is about, I guess its time to learn.  

 

input or guidance on where to look for input on Lift Pumps would be appreciated.

 

015point9, thanks for the input.  

 

thanks

Bob

 

 

 

[jlbayes]

So you could retrofit a better pump to work in place of the current pump on the fuel pump module. Just an idea.

 

The ONLY things airdog and fass are good at is advertising.

[Bobalos]

27 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

So you could retrofit a better pump to work in place of the current pump on the fuel pump module. Just an idea.

 

The ONLY things airdog and fass are good at is advertising.

Sorry, not following you.........  

 

is there a better in tank solution to the OEM pump?  if so, what is it?  I like the in tank solution, if there is a better pump Im in!

 

BTW, I disconnected the grid heaters on Sunday & this morning got a P1291 code.  I guess I will hook them back up.  Im tired of the CEL coming on.  This time I did as suggested & disconnected the heater wires instead of the relay activation wires.  I would guess its because the IAT sensor is not seeing an increase in air temp.  

 

thanks again folks.

Bob

 

[dripley]

I had the in tank from dodge many years ago when the or block mounted pump died. Cost a little more than $900 plus the tow bill. It lasted a little over a year. So who knows how long they will last. I put an AD on mine for 600 plus my time. Wish I had known more about it back then. For about 7 years but did replace the pump motor about 3 years ago under warranty. How long any of them will last is a mystery to me, but I feel better with the AD and a fuel pressure gauge to leg me know when something is going wrong.

[jlbayes]

You will have to do some leg work to find out what pumps will fit. I do not have a module here to see what pump is in them.

[bcbigfoot]

I wonder which side of the fuel filter is the gauge hooked to, might just be time for a fuel filter. 

[Bobalos]

I had to replace the fuel filter housing with the 2000 version, because the top cracked @ the test ports.  

 

the gauge is on the output of the filter housing.  everything from the filter housing through the injectors are brand new (filter, housing, inj pump, & injectors).  

 

I suppose the filter could be plugged up, but in 2 weeks...........  ???  I will be checking it tonight.  

 

Im guessing the lift pump is on its way out.  its been in there for a while......  that said, I know Gas in tank pumps last for a very long time, & I cant get any kind of solid answer on a rule of thumb for the Diesel ones.  I dont see why they would not live a long time (Unless they are just shitty pumps).  

 

I did not take any pictures of the in tank pump when I put it in, so I dont remember exactly what it looks like, but IIRC its just a short round pump like just about every other one Ive ever seen.  I wonder if Aeromotive or any of those aftermarket folks make a replacement pump.  Might be too small of a market for them.............  

 

thanks folks

Bob

 

[jlbayes]

I am thinking Bosch or Carter replacements. It will require a pressure regulator to knock the pressure down. But the airdog and fass do the same.

[Mopar1973Man]

Airdog wise I'm heading to 12 years old and about 260k miles on the pump and still holding strong. Factory pumps or intank pumps are expensive and typically don't last very long.

2 minutes ago, jlbayes said:

I am thinking Bosch or Carter replacements. It will require a pressure regulator to knock the pressure down. But the airdog and fass do the same.

 

Can you provide more info on these pumps?

[Bobalos]

56 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Airdog wise I'm heading to 12 years old and about 260k miles on the pump and still holding strong. 

 

which Airdog do you have?  Being as I just put in a new fuel filter housing I was going thinking about just getting the 100 GPH pump with no filter & mount it to the frame where my Mallory presently is.   that means though that Im going to have to get into the tank anyway to get the existing pump out.  Plus I have AN Fittings on my truck which means Im going to have to figure out what type of fitting is on the pump & find something that will go from that to -6 AN.  

 

And I guess I will have to figure out this draw straw thing.  I think that the AirDog that is for internal pumps comes with something, but its not very clear from the sites I have been looking at.  

thanks

Bob

 

[BBHD]

16 minutes ago, Bobalos said:

 

And I guess I will have to figure out this draw straw thing.  I think that the AirDog that is for internal pumps comes with something, but its not very clear fr

I used a drawstrawV from Vulcan diesel when I went with my FASS. Air dog also has their own kit to replace the in tank pump with a draw straw set up @dripley used one if I remember right. 

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got a Airdog 150. Mounted right behind my transfer case. I kept my stock fuel filter can. Thinking of that I was travelling New Meadows valley this morning at 6F and nice to see fuel temp at 63F. Long ways from gelling issues

 

[015point9]

When my fuel system fell apart, because of mechanic I ended up with a draw straw as mentioned in my above post.  Here is link to what they are. https://www.amazon.com/Fass-1989-2012-1999-2012-Powerstroke-2001-2012/dp/B009SCRBDU   and I also ended up with a "sump"  and here the link to it.  https://www.amazon.com/Fass-STK-5500BO-FASS-Sump-Kit/dp/B009LNFFSE    The mechanic did a bad job and had to re-do it when I got home.  This site help me a lot. There is lots of info and help available that I'm thankful for.

 

Here is why I would not install a sump or draw straw.

 

Sump...

You say you have 2x4.  So is mine.  I would never do a sump again for several reasons.  One of which is with a 2x4 the fuel hose hangs down and very easy for road debris to do damage the sump then maybe fuel leak.  Which mine did and had to wrap diapers around it held on with bailing wire to get home from Yuma to Seattle. And some say a sump is even illegal, which is another debate. 

 

Draw straw...

Lots of people end up with a draw straw.  Some people have problems when fuel gets low if not installed exactly right.    It stops sucking fuel when fuel level gets below the tip of draw straw.  With me it is when wife stops at our mail box that is on a hill and if fuel is low, starts sucking air.  

 

Gauges don't last forever, so you could end up having to drop the tank just to get to the gauge anyways.  So I went with modifying existing fuel module.  

 

Another option that I hear is good... but I don't know much about them at the time is  http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=FB-98502    Many people like them.  

 

I also have a " back up" pump.  A Carter pump is under my back seat. (Add another $80-100).  If my lift pump fails, I'm no longer captive to mechanics where ever I break down at.   Just turn fuel shut off valves, unscrew fuel line and screw in carter pump, unplug elec wire from pump and plug elec wire into carter pump.  

 

After you search out the options, do what feels best for you. None of the options are cheap IMO.  

Edited December 5, 2017 by 015point9

[Dieselfuture]

I did draw straw 5 from Vulcan that modifies fuel basket, which now comes with Supply and return both in 1/2" it's better to eliminate psi swings. And my air dog 150 started to leak so I got a 150 fass. I agree on in tank pumps, they seem to last a long time on cars not sure what the deal is on these trucks. 12valves mechanical pumps were good, heck everything on 12valve was good imo for longevity. 

[Bobalos]

thanks folks, looks like I have some homework (and possibly more expense).  Im going to start with the basics & go from there.

 

Bob

 

[dripley]

2 hours ago, Bobalos said:

thanks folks, looks like I have some homework (and possibly more expense).  Im going to start with the basics & go from there.

 

Bob

 

With all the advice you got I wish you luck. There are many ways to go and we have all  had different successes going those ways. So i guess it is not as cut and dry as we all wish it could be. And there are still some folks around that get my on the oe stuff. I think you have to pick your poison here and live with it.

4 hours ago, BBHD said:

I used a drawstrawV from Vulcan diesel when I went with my FASS. Air dog also has their own kit to replace the in tank pump with a draw straw set up @dripley used one if I remember right. 

I did use the AD kit on my install and it has worked flawlessly other than the pump failure about 3 years ago,

Edited December 6, 2017 by dripley

[Bobalos]

 

Well.........  I swung by & picked up a couple of fuel filters just as a sanity check.  Filter looks fine, nothing in it. 

 

I looked in the filter housing & there was nothing in it either.  its a nice green color now with the 2 stroke oil in it.  good thing Im Irish.  LOL. 

 

I checked the fuel pressure gauge to make sure its reading correctly & it is. 

 

So............ looks like Im dropping the fuel tank this weekend (assuming this cold does not get any worse.).  so much for tackling the Dash/heater/AC this weekend........ 

I have to call around tomorrow & see who can get me a fuel pump by the weekend.  bah humbug. 

 

& FWIW, I will likely do my own thing with the Draw Straw.  other than the big $$$  options, Im not overly enthousiastic about the options out there.  I will likely overthink it.......  LOL. 

 

thanks again folks. 

Bob

 

Fwiw......  It was a little chilly this morning.  I don't know that I would call it cold..... I've been to great lakes Michigan, I know what cold is.  Lol. 

 

Bob

Edited December 6, 2017 by Bobalos

[dripley]

That filter looks pristine. As clean as new.