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Lift Pump Question

Marcus2000monster
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W-T

W-T

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, trreed said:

 

 

Side note, I was watching a multi-million dollar dryer being installed in a new plant the other week.  The control panel for the feeder has a cable of X feet long (length slips my mind), and a question came up between the engineer from Buhler and the installation supervisor about what to do with excess cable.  The engineer recommended to not cut excess wire out and leave the original length of cable to avoid messing with anything in the control panel due to slightly less voltage drop across the shorter wire.  He even went as far as to recommend that any excess cable be coiled up and placed in the control panel itself.  This particular feeder runs on a 480V, 3Ph system, and after our discussion above, now the advice seems strange.

 

I am looking forward to your write up on the bypass circuit for the pump motors.  That is an aspect I've never considered before, nor did I know anything about the internals of a Carter pump.

Interesting aspect to NOTE in this subject...without knowing what circuit the Engineer was eluding to... it would be difficult to take a guess. Yes, there are systems where the I^R losses are important to maintain, regarding sensors for telemetry. Being that this 480 volt 3Phase system is a large scale device, there may very well be merit in what the Engineer stated to the Install Technician. Our situation is slightly different regarding noise generation (RF) with undesired responses from TC lock/unlock and cruse-control idiosyncrasies. 

 

@Marcus2000monster  The Carter pump did have some excellent design aspects but, the diesel community realized the short comings and the cost of NOT paying attention to how feeble this pump was in our environment...allow me the latitude and I'll spill the beans on this device.

 

BTW..guys...I do not wish to come in and side-track a thread...occasionally my enthusiasm for key elements within a running thread causes me to overlook the focus. My apologies :pray:  

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Marcus2000monster

Marcus2000monster

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4 minutes ago, W-T said:

Interesting aspect to NOTE in this subject...without knowing what circuit the Engineer was eluding to... it would be difficult to take a guess. Yes, there are systems where the I^R losses are important to maintain, regarding sensors for telemetry. Being that this 480 volt 3Phase system is a large scale device, there may very well be merit in what the Engineer stated to the Install Technician. Our situation is slightly different regarding noise generation (RF) with undesired responses from TC lock/unlock and cruse-control idiosyncrasies. 

 

@Marcus2000monster  The Carter pump did have some excellent design aspects but, the diesel community realized the short comings and the cost of NOT paying attention to how feeble this pump was in our environment...allow me the latitude and I'll spill the beans on this device.

 

BTW..guys...I do not wish to come in and side-track a thread...occasionally my enthusiasm for key elements within a running thread causes me to overlook the focus. My apologies :pray:  

The original questions of my thread have been answered. Please elaborate!

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trreed

trreed

Posted
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1 minute ago, W-T said:

system is a large scale device, there may very well be merit in what the Engineer stated to the Install Technician. Our situation is slightly different regarding noise generation (RF) with undesired responses from TC lock/unlock and cruse-control idiosyncrasies

My thoughts now on it are if the circuits are that sensitive to voltage changes (I'm assuming it will be all sorts of limit switches, light sensors, and depth sensors, as this is a chute that sweeps from side to side, dispersing product evenly) then the coiled cable would affect those circuits in the same manner as an amplified lift pump motor. But, I am not an electrical engineer.  I chose to go a generic mechanical engineer route with focus on equipment.

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notlimah

notlimah

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Maybe I’m just being a bit naive here but, if NOT cutting excess was causing issues with a companies pump, wouldn’t that be the advice of said company to ‘cut to length’ as to avoid pumps being returned with fried electronics? 

 

Im trying to make sense of all this extra RF energy but I work with radars everyday and it’s a little different lol.

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W-T

W-T

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6 minutes ago, Marcus2000monster said:

The original questions of my thread have been answered. Please elaborate!

I'm just retrieving my photos for the Carter pump...I saved these years ago and I'm stumbling trying to find them. A picture is worth a thousand words. :)

 

6 minutes ago, trreed said:

My thoughts now on it are if the circuits are that sensitive to voltage changes (I'm assuming it will be all sorts of limit switches, light sensors, and depth sensors, as this is a chute that sweeps from side to side, dispersing product evenly) then the coiled cable would affect those circuits in the same manner as an amplified lift pump motor. But, I am not an electrical engineer.  I chose to go a generic mechanical engineer route with focus on equipment.

 

True, any coil of wire will have electromagnetic properties when excited or charged but, in design aspects these properties can be controlled or entirely eliminated if the following circuit has a proclivity of error due to the collapsing of an electromagnetic field (EMF). This device you're referring to is most likely well engineered and these extension arms being followed by coiled electrical cables, most likely, are well thought out. An error at that level is huge and would not escape into the field of operation.

 

I am not an electrical engineer, I do hold a First Class Radio Telephone License and I've been practicing the study of electronics for 50 years. I consider myself a tenacious technician...I have contributed technical writings for electronic review magazines and though not 'American Scientific' I have been honored to be in print. I have no academic pedigree...I'm just a poor kid from Butte, Montana that learned to read and to utilize my meager knowledge at a weaponized level of proficiency. 

 

Yet...I'd rather drink a beer and make people laugh.:cheers:   

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trreed

trreed

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, W-T said:

Yet...I'd rather drink a beer and make people laugh.:cheers:

I like it!

I started looking over the engineering documents to satisfy my curiosity, and there’s plenty of mentions of twisted pairs being used. I’m going to double check with the engineer when I’m at the plant again, but I have a suspicion all wires in aforementioned cable are twisted pairs to alleviate the interference. 

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W-T

W-T

Posted
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28 minutes ago, notlimah said:

Maybe I’m just being a bit naive here but, if NOT cutting excess was causing issues with a companies pump, wouldn’t that be the advice of said company to ‘cut to length’ as to avoid pumps being returned with fried electronics? 

 

Im trying to make sense of all this extra RF energy but I work with radars everyday and it’s a little different lol.

 

I've caused too much derailment on this thread...notlimah...I knew you had a background in radio frequency and no, an extra length of wire is not at issue. I caused this confusion please allow me to complete the presentation in a subsequent thread.

 

RADAR...wow...I love Klystrons and TWT (traveling wave tubes) let's trash the site in a different thread...I'd be most interested in your skill set. I'm drinking a beer :wink:

23 minutes ago, trreed said:

I like it!

I started looking over the engineering documents to satisfy my curiosity, and there’s plenty of mentions of twisted pairs being used. I’m going to double check with the engineer when I’m at the plant again, but I have a suspicion all wires in aforementioned cable are twisted pairs to alleviate the interference. 

 

The "twist" method is surprisingly still being used in many production runs not only to "reject" an interfering signal but, also for self containment. This is very common in high current AC lines within chassis design or distribution runs. It also has merit with low voltage low current DC lines as well.

 

I'm going to go get some chips to go with this beer.

 

Cheers

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Marcus2000monster

Marcus2000monster

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You guys LOL!! :thumbup2: Took my girl out for a spin and all seems well so far! Idle pressure is a solid 20psi and wot is about 18 psi! I didn't mash it but I got into pretty good and it didn't drop below 17. I'm very satisfied so far! I am curious though if the pump noise I'm hearing is normal. I can easily hear it when idling and I'm fairly hard of hearing. I also am still wondering about the power of these 75hp injectors. I installed a Qaudzilla Boost Fooler and I think it made it bit of top end difference but it still seems rather doggish for 75s and not a puff of smoke to be seen which is ok by me. I'm certain that my can bus tuners had a lot more juice than these sticks. I'm still tossing around the idea of a worn out vp44 though because my mpg hasn't been able to top 14.8 by the lie o meter and it seems to ack some power.. what you guys think? 

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Marcus2000monster

Marcus2000monster

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Also there is a P1693 code whe doing the key trick but no codes display on my Scan Gauge or my OBDLink.... there is the p0230 lift pump code still in the freeze frame section though. 

1 minute ago, trreed said:

Post a video of the pump sound

COming up

@trreed I'm having trouble uploading the video. Its not just terrible noisy but surely noticeable. also when I loosen the screw in the bottom of the water separator the pump gets much quieter and my fuel pressure goes to like 12 psi... 

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Marcus2000monster

Marcus2000monster

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Just now, trreed said:

Pressure drops because you're introducing air into the system. If the sound of the pump is consistent, pressure is steady, and it doesn't sound like its sucking air, its fine. 

Cool well ill live with it then! Thanks again for the pump!  Took her for another ride and got on it good. I guess it maybe takes  little extra throttle input to get going with injectors cause she went pretty good when I got on it. 

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