2nd gen engine cooling

[Akaiser21]

I’ll probably just get a napa fan clutch since I don’t have all the choices where I live lol. Has anyone tried out the plastic fan similar to the 3rd gen? https://www.genosgarage.com/product/dodge-ram-cummins-replacement-cooling-fan-fan9402/fan-clutch

[AH64ID]

1 minute ago, Akaiser21 said:

I’ll probably just get a napa fan clutch since I don’t have all the choices where I live lol. Has anyone tried out the plastic fan similar to the 3rd gen? https://www.genosgarage.com/product/dodge-ram-cummins-replacement-cooling-fan-fan9402/fan-clutch

 

Not cheap, but 39% airflow improvement is HUGE!!

[Akaiser21]

That’s what I’m thinking! I’m going to see about getting one of these! 

[KATOOM]

Its been years since I remember where the information came from, but the OEM engine fan on the Cummins ISB is supposed to pull 10,000 CFM at 2000 rpm.  Thats a lot...!  And towing my 5th wheel up the mountain grades in triple digit summer heat, the fan noise and power loss would support that CFM estimate.  So I guess I'm not sure what another 30% of CFM would do...if its even necessary.  Might just load the engine so much that the cooling capacity gained is offset by the increase in EGT's just trying to move the fan.

 

That said, yes, the OEM fan is no longer available but there's a thread where someone found another fan that is almost exactly the same and its bolt on.  I'll have to look for the thread.

[AH64ID]

I understood that the 3rd gen fan is a 8500 CFM fan. 

[Mopar1973Man]

18 hours ago, KATOOM said:

That said, yes, the OEM fan is no longer available but there's a thread where someone found another fan that is almost exactly the same and its bolt on.

 

Replacement fan are still in production...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2002,ram+2500+pickup,5.9l+l6+diesel+turbocharged,1440064,cooling+system,radiator+fan+blade,6808

 

As Geno's said...

 

Quote

Mopar has discontinued its offering of cooling fans for the 1989 to 2002 Turbo Diesel trucks. Those looking for a replacement end up paying a hefty sum for a used one from a junkyard. 

 

Not true... As Dorman now is producing the fans for fraction of that $300 price tag. 

 

In all the years of owning my truck I've NEVER overheated ONCE. Never had coolant temperature issues even towing heavy.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[KATOOM]

2 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Replacement fan are still in production...

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2002,ram+2500+pickup,5.9l+l6+diesel+turbocharged,1440064,cooling+system,radiator+fan+blade,6808

 

As Geno's said...

 

Not true... As Dorman now is producing the fans for fraction of that $300 price tag. 

 

In all the years of owning my truck I've NEVER overheated ONCE. Never had coolant temperature issues even towing heavy.

 

Good to know.....  This must have been fairly recent because for awhile finding these fans meant combing junkyards.  Good info.

[Mopar1973Man]

38 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

 

Good to know.....  This must have been fairly recent because for awhile finding these fans meant combing junkyards.  Good info.

Dorman started production about 2 years ago.

[015point9]

I've got one blade on fan tiny bit out of wack.  No overheating problems even towing 9k.  No rivets loose that I can tell.  I would hate to have fan go and destroy other stuff.  

What is OK or when to replace?

 

(edit...found info on what is OK and what is not)

 

WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BEND OR STRAIGHTEN FAN BLADES IF FAN IS NOT WITHIN SPECIFICATIONS.
CAUTION: If fan blade assembly is replaced because of mechanical damage, water pump and viscous fan drive should also be inspected. These components could have been damaged due to excessive vibration.

(1) Remove fan blade assembly from viscous fan drive unit (four bolts).

(2) Lay fan on a flat surface with leading edge facing down. With tip of blade touching flat surface, replace fan if clearance between opposite blade and surface is greater than 2.0 mm (.090 inch). Rocking motion of opposite blades should not exceed 2.0 mm (.090 inch). Test all blades in this manner.

(3) Inspect fan assembly for cracks, bends, loose rivets or broken welds. Replace fan if any damage is found

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by 015point9
found info

[Akaiser21]

Ok guys so here is my update to my fix. With all the suggestions I have decided to try each one. I kept my toy hauler loaded full. 37' Toy hauler 100ga water full, XP1000 RZR, 2 dirt bikes and all the other crap you can get in one for spending long weekends. For trial sake I pulled the same 28mi route hard, to generate as much heat to see if I could get this problem resolved. 

1. I put on my manifold blanket and wrapped my turbos. What I noticed about my under hood heat was a good reduction of my IAT. I would be able to see about 145 to 150. Im now seeing 125-130 on a 85* day! That helps! 

2. Attempted to pull fan clutch off my truck and broke every rental pulley holder I could put my hands on lol. I wanted to test if the valve was opening and at what temp... this was left on hold till I could build a custom holder. I even tried an air hammer with some heat. haha she was on there..

3. While waiting on that I put the stock size wheels and tires on it (245 75 16). Now empty I could burn these tires to the ground if I wanted due to reduced size and weight... but when pulling the camper in 4th I would be at 50-55 mph at 2300 to 2500 rpm. When I threw it into 5th I could hear my trans start to wine and growl. My engine torq look would be at nearly 75% when trying to accelerate to 65mph. With that being said I would rather be a little slower getting to highway speeds and be able to stay in 4th at 65mph at 2300 rpm. My torq load is only at 45% max when pulling hills. Much nicer and easier on the truck. BUT I was still overheating. So, my as stated my "pretty" tires are back on!!!!!!!

THE SOLUTION- I finally got the fan clutch off. Lost some blood and patience over it but I got it. I put a Hayden Severe duty clutch on. I can hear the fan now!!! I could hear it before in 1st and 2nd before and I think a little in 3rd.. was never load. Now I can hear it in every gear! You do have to be listening for it in 4th and 5th or you'd never hear it over road noise. I pulled the same route and did not get any hotter there 203. It was cooler that day so I came to a stop on a hill and started back off and short shifted each gear to force my motor to work HARD! I ran my EGTS to 1200 for almost 3 minutes straight. Still never got any hotter!!

 

Thank you everyone for your advice!

[KATOOM]

Akaiser21, thank you for the update.  Yes, the clutch fans are more of a problem than some give credit since if you get a weak one then you're fan isnt doing its intended job.  You should absolutely hear the engine fan roaring with authority when you're towing in the heat.  When mine engages the fan noise can almost dominate the engine noise.  My EGT's will even jump simply due to the additional load placed on the engine trying to muscle those CFM's.  It clearly sounds like yours wasnt doing its job...

 

That said, I'm very interested to hear about your IAT numbers...  I just installed a Thermal Zero turbo blanket but have yet to test it out.  I dont have any way to monitor IAT temps like you guys do so the only thing I'll be watching for is EGT differences while towing in the heat this summer.  If things look promising then I'll be getting their manifold blanket as well just to lessen the intake heat as much as possible in the summer.  Good post...

Edited June 24, 2018 by KATOOM

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Akaiser21 said:

While waiting on that I put the stock size wheels and tires on it (245 75 16)

 

Stock size truly is 265/75 R16 for the 4WD. 245/75 R16 is for the 2WD. Like @IBMobile is set up with this exact tire size and 4.10 gears on a 47RE transmission. 

Quote

2000 2500 quadcab, lwb, 4.10 ls, auto, edge ez, manual boost controller, RV275 injectors, 4" s/s magnaflow, fuel boss pump, BHAF,cold air box, issapro: trans temp, boost, egt, fp on A pillar, mystery switch, wife riding shotgun. 

9

 

 

1 hour ago, Akaiser21 said:

but when pulling the camper in 4th I would be at 50-55 mph at 2300 to 2500 rpm

 

The problem is your beyond your torque curve. You want to float at 2K pulling hills. 2.3 to 2.5 you on the back side of the torque curve. It will create heat.

1 hour ago, Akaiser21 said:

When I threw it into 5th I could hear my trans start to wine and growl.

 

There is something else wrong transmission should never wine or growl. Again most likely pushing too hard pulling that amount of weight. Most likely the strain from the 37" tires have done there deed.

[Akaiser21]

16 minutes ago, KATOOM said:

My old fan did work but I never once ever heard it sounding like a prop plane like some other trucks I’ve driven lol. This new fan clutch comes on much earler and seems to be at a much higher speed! I was beginning to think my old truck just didn’t want to tow that much weight and that I’d have to get a new one ?

 

I have an older quazilla to help me monitor all those things! Worth it in my opinion. I also used it to build my high idle switch back in the day.  I was surprised that I had that much of a cooling affect with my intake temps. I plan on doing some extras to force more cool air to my intake as I had to build it for my compound turbo set up. It’s in a high temp location 

 

22 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

 

Stock size truly is 265/75 R16 for the 4WD. 245/75 R16 is for the 2WD. Like @IBMobile is set up with this exact tire size and 4.10 gears on a 47RE transmission. 

 

 

 

The problem is your beyond your torque curve. You want to float at 2K pulling hills. 2.3 to 2.5 you on the back side of the torque curve. It will create heat.

 

There is something else wrong transmission should never wine or growl. Again most likely pushing too hard pulling that amount of weight. Most likely the strain from the 37" tires have done there deed.

 

 

Well I took the tires off my old ‘79 Ford to try it. I mean I could just go out and buy a whole other set of wheels and tires for troubleshooting. My torque curve to my Dyno specs are not as low as the stock form. I build boost and start pulling hard 1800 rpm. I peak 1200ftlbs at 2600. I think it’s right in its torq range. The trans is an ATS built 4500. (Junk to be honest) the should we’re almost like when you lug a 3 gen 6 speed. Almost like I was about to fry a clutch. I’ll keep my 35” tires on it. Works just fine. Temps are good now. 

[KATOOM]

Moparman is right about the tranny.  There should be no growling noises unless you're towing too low of an RPM for a particular gear.  But in saying that, I never tow in 5th gear.  Its simply too tall of a gear ratio unless I'm doing over 70 mph, and the heat it builds in the transmission is huge.  Last summer on way to our camp trip we were forced to drive in 112* summer heat up the highway.  The toy hauler weighs around 14-15k.  The engine fan never shut off, engine temp hovered around 205-215 depending on the hills, and the transmission and differential were close to 200*. 

 

I have 285's and towing in 4th will generally have me cruising along at 2200-2300 RPM's.  If I'm heading up a hill I'll speed up just to get a running start which will get the RPM's up to around 2500 and eventually stabilizing and holding strong around 2300...depending on the grade angle and what I'm towing.  If I'm towing pretty much anything other than my toy hauler none of this applies.

 

My biggest complaint about the 4500 is the gear split between 3rd and 4th.  But thats most peoples complaints...

[AH64ID]

I get lots of low rpm gear rollover noise from my trans, but I generally downshift when towing to avoid clutch noise and strain. 

 

Funny thing is that when I run a single event tune I get almost zero trans noise at any rpm. My guess is the pilot/main aren't as smooth on the crank, but they sure are quiet. 

 

I've got a single event tune in the truck right now and it's fun and appears to be very fuel efficient.

[Mopar1973Man]

Between my 235's and 3.55 gears I'm very capable of towing 5th gear. First transmission never had a 5th gear nut issue. Now this transmission (rebuilt Weller Truck with upgraded shaft) I can also tow in 5th gear no issue. No noises at all. I just got to be above 50 MPH to keep 5th. Once I drop below 1,200 on the tach I must down shift. My peak power is right around 1,800 RPM being how I've got my timing set up on the Quad which doesn't force me to turn high RPM for peak power. Which on the OP signature I do not see a tuner so that explains it because the stock ECM tune has a nasty hole in the middle  (12-14 degrees) that is all retard timing that creates a huge amount of heat and EGT's.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Mopar1973Man

[Dieselfuture]

@Mopar1973Man what is your current towing tune, have you modified your old one. Just curious now that you've hauling your rv.

[Mopar1973Man]

Basically it really close to my daily driver tune just less timing so it can build boost easier. Daily driver tune you can crank up the timing quite a bit. I really haven't built a separate tow tune just gone in and drop the timing some on the sliders. The rest is the same. 

[Akaiser21]

4 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

@Mopar1973Man what is your current towing tune, have you modified your old one. Just curious now that you've hauling your rv.

 

I would have to look to be able to tell you what exactly I have it set at. I do know that I have changed a lot of stuff the last dyno runs due to my injector sizing. The last time I pulled it I reverted to stock tube parameters and pulled on level 5 which worked well. Any lower then that my timing get off and I have a harder time getting a quick spool resulting in EGT run away 

[Mopar1973Man]

Won't do you any good for my tune. I'm set up for a much smaller turbo (HX35/40 hybrid 60/60/12) and smaller injectors (7 x 0.0085).

 

17, 20, 23, 26, Max of 27

 

Running Level 3 I can hold the throttle to the floor empty and never reach 1,200*F. Towing I barely touch 1,100*F with the cruise set for 55 MPH in 4th gear (2,100 RPM) climbing 6% grade with 235/85 R16 tires (3.55 gear)

 

Also, coolant temps never exceed 208-210*F typically.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Mopar1973Man