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Nv4500 atf+4??

12vhunter
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12vhunter

12vhunter

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Posted

I went to the dodge dealer and he said that atf +4 had to be used in my nv4500.

He said it superceded the old oil and when he typed in the part number it kept coming back to the atf +4 so I'm wondering if I can use it.

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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Ummm... I would say you need a synthetic GL-4 lubricant. Most tend to like the light viscosity oils I went to Mobil 50 SAE used in Eaton Fuller transmissions. Cleared 100k with no issues works got in cold climate as well down to -40F.

dripley

dripley

Posted
Posted

My 96 had a 5 speed behind a V10  I could swear that tranny used ATF. That was back in 99 and 00 not sure the ATF 4 was available then. Just dont remember.

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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4 hours ago, 12vhunter said:

Ok thanks guys I guess I'll keep looking for the right stuff

 

No longer exist anymore. Castrol Syntorque is no longer manufactured. Yeah, I know the AMSOil claim to have an oil that meets all the spec comes at quite a price. This is why I started breaking the bond of name brands and scares of wrong fluids. Basically what it requires is GL-4 lubricant. You can be anywhere from 75 weight to 90 weight gear oil. 

 

Like PenzOil Syncromesh is used in the NV5600 transmission but it doesn't meet the GL-4 spec because its too thin. It could be used because its designed for all the GL-4 specs like yellow metal protection which the syncros require. Like I said before people tend to favor the light viscosity of oil because of better shift performance. The down side is that it will become to thin in the summer under working loads. 

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AH64ID

AH64ID

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15 hours ago, 12vhunter said:

So Amsoil 75 90 gl4 marine gear lube would work? 

 

That's not the fluid I would run, as it's also a GL-5. 

 

The Amsoil fluid you want is the MTG 75w-90 GL-4. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-transmission-and-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90/?code=MTGQT-EA

 

On 11/4/2018 at 7:30 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

 

No longer exist anymore. Castrol Syntorque is no longer manufactured.

 

While the OE fluid may have been Castrol Syntorque, Syntorque is a fluid and not a specification (unlike syncromesh). The specification is MS-9070, which is a GL-4 fluid. There are several fluids available that meet MS-9070 so the "right stuff" does still exist. 

 

Many OEM's have fluid specifications that are separate from SAE ratings, such as Cummins CES20086 and CK-4 oil. That doesn't mean that something that isn't the OE fluid isn't properly spec'd.  

 

OEM's cannot require you to run a specific brand of fluid/filter/etc.. If they do, then they must furnish it. What they can do is require you run a fluid/filter that meets a certain specification, which in the case of the NV4500 is MS-9070. 

 

Even Mopar changed the P/N recommendation of fluid for the NV-4500 over the years, but it appears to always have been MS-9070.

 

On 11/4/2018 at 7:30 PM, Mopar1973Man said:

Yeah, I know the AMSOil claim to have an oil that meets all the spec comes at quite a price.

 

IIRC you paid about $265 (tax included?) for 5 gals of Delvac SAE50, and I can get 5 gallons of Amsoil MTG to my door for under $280 (tax/shipping included). Even if your price included tax the Amsoil doesn't come at "quite a price". If tax wasn't included one can get Amsoil cheaper. 

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Mopar1973Man

Mopar1973Man

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Posted (edited)

I can now get 50 SAE maybe a bit below $200 a 5-gallon bucket now. Don't need the flashy "Mobil Delvac" name I can pick up any GL-4 50 SAE fluid and do the same thing. I can cut a ton off the price. Lots of other names out there without the price with the same spec.

 

At any rate it WAY cheaper than factory Mopar Fluid...

Edited by Mopar1973Man
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AH64ID

AH64ID

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Posted (edited)
On 11/6/2018 at 7:38 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

 Lots of other names out there without the price with the same spec.

 

Lots of fluids with the same spec are not created equal. 

 

Just look at oils, anything from cheap dino, cheap synthetic, or expensive synthetic all meet the same spec, but they are all quite different oils in terms of how they work and protect. 

 

If meeting spec was all that mattered we would all be running cheap Fram filters. 

6 minutes ago, Killer223 said:

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/7e398057-fe75-e711-9c10-ac162d889bd3/1a3e1219-f005-e811-9c13-ac162d889bd1

 

I think that's the first place I've ever seen GL-4 and Syncromesh on the same bottle!

 

It's always been presumed that Syncromesh was a GL-4 based fluid, or a variant there of... I've just never seen an OEM state it. Even other Valvoline brochures for that fluid don't mention it. 

 

Valvoline spec's that fluid for both NV-4500's and NV-5600's....as well as the G-56. 

 

http://www.carquestprofessionals.com/catalogs/chemicals/V-8070 Manual Transmission Fluid Application Guide 6.6.13.pdf

Edited by AH64ID
Killer223

Killer223

Posted
Posted

Ima thry it in my 95. Then when the 08 needs service I'll try it in the g56 as well. I really like the swepco711 in the g56. It's a toss up compared to the amsoil mtg.

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
cuda

cuda

Posted
Posted
On 11/6/2018 at 6:16 AM, AH64ID said:

 

That's not the fluid I would run, as it's also a GL-5. 

 

The Amsoil fluid you want is the MTG 75w-90 GL-4. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/manual/manual-transmission-and-transaxle-gear-lube-75w-90/?code=MTGQT-EA

 

 

While the OE fluid may have been Castrol Syntorque, Syntorque is a fluid and not a specification (unlike syncromesh). The specification is MS-9070, which is a GL-4 fluid. There are several fluids available that meet MS-9070 so the "right stuff" does still exist. 

 

Many OEM's have fluid specifications that are separate from SAE ratings, such as Cummins CES20086 and CK-4 oil. That doesn't mean that something that isn't the OE fluid isn't properly spec'd.  

 

OEM's cannot require you to run a specific brand of fluid/filter/etc.. If they do, then they must furnish it. What they can do is require you run a fluid/filter that meets a certain specification, which in the case of the NV4500 is MS-9070. 

 

Even Mopar changed the P/N recommendation of fluid for the NV-4500 over the years, but it appears to always have been MS-9070.

 

 

IIRC you paid about $265 (tax included?) for 5 gals of Delvac SAE50, and I can get 5 gallons of Amsoil MTG to my door for under $280 (tax/shipping included). Even if your price included tax the Amsoil doesn't come at "quite a price". If tax wasn't included one can get Amsoil cheaper. 

 

So the Amsoil MTG also is fine for the fiber syncros?

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AH64ID

AH64ID

Posted
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, cuda said:

 

So the Amsoil MTG also is fine for the fiber syncros?

 

I didn't think the NV-4500 used fiber syncros. 

 

 

Edited by AH64ID
cuda

cuda

Posted
Posted (edited)

I thought all stock NV4500's had brass sycros with fiber coating then when NP went out of business all aftermarket rebuild kits have a new design brass only 3rd 4th and 5th syncro and no longer need the special formula mixed in. I have an original nv4500 and need to add a set of coolers so I am looking around at options I remember ruining a posi in the old days by not putting in the special clutch additive. 

Edited by cuda
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