P0230 after new FASS

[Nutter]

I've been reading up on every topic remotely close to the VP44 and fuel system for the last month. Lost my lift pump and sender unit same time which apparently blew my VP. So...100% stock 2001 6-speed...buy a new VP and decide on a FASS Titanium95. I read all the reviews but frankly the horse trailers and 5th wheels aren't a problem in these desert mountains (digression).

 

Have FSM, did install last weekend of both. Removed old filter canister and bracket (no going back, I shaved the bolts to match the others with no bracket) and removed old pump. Fuel line is just hanging. Taped and sealed each of the three connectors, then taped them together, then zip tied to the ECM harness.

 

FASS is battery and ignition fuze, so in my head, after reading all W-T and Moparman posts, I'm thinking my current lift pump has ZERO to do with the ECM. WTF? I popped a p0230 during bleeding. Ok...maybe a hold over, so I clear codes. It's late, it goes away, I shut the old lady down.

 

Start up in the morning and code comes back. Eff me. Maybe I didn't clear properly, do the drive to reset over a couple of days but...that night after work and multiple trips trying to get it to reset, CEL goes off. Sweet!

 

Nope. First start in the morning CEL stays on before Wait to Start goes off. Eff me. Start reading more from you guys about loose grounds...can't find any. Stop in to Auto zone to talk to local genius and make sure my code clear was legit, start it up for him and no CEL.

 

SERIOUSLY? Any help here would help me sleep this weekend while I'm out of town with this same truck after my code shows up again at 7am.

 

Edit: I checked the ohm tests mentioned in other posts before this fiasco with just the lift pump...but not after the repairs.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Nutter
Additional info

[IBMobile]

Are you using a relay to power the FASS pump and if so are you using the power led from the ECM to the old lift pump to trigger the relay or that fused wire from the ignition switch?

[Towrigdually]

I'm not exactly sure what's wrong, but I did have the exact same issue when I installed the fass 95 on my truck also. had a spare relay off the old airdog pump, swapped them out and the code was gone after a drive to town. So it may be a faulty part causing the code to come up, if I remember right it's a power out of range code. 

Just an idea and sharing what my fix was. 

[Nutter]

I do have a relay, but it's just inline between the battery and pump. The old circuit is not involved whatsoever. The other fuzed lead is coming from the ignition fuze in the panel. Followed FASS instructions to a T. Except for the part where they tell you to connect the lead before they tell you to run it through the firewall. So I cut it and reconnected.

 

I guess the easy answer is to check the relay anyway, even though it's new, and to check the ground from the old pump circuit which is going from splice 164 or something.

 

Heading out of town now on the assumption that mechanically and electrically I am fine and the error can't possibly be related to a functional issue.

 

Does anyone know the origin of the P0230? Does it literally originate on wrong voltage from ECM at only that circuit? If so, I'm good. If not, I might be screwed.

[IBMobile]

52 minutes ago, Nutter said:

Does anyone know the origin of the P0230?

The ECM does not see the lift pump.  

 

57 minutes ago, Nutter said:

The other fuzed lead is coming from the ignition fuze in the panel. Followed FASS instructions to a T.

Following FASS instructions could cause injury or death.   If you are in an accident and unable to turn off the ignition switch fuel will continue to flow feeding a fire if it should occur.

 

Wired this way the ECM is in control and will stop the lift pump if the engine should stall.

[pepsi71ocean]

1 hour ago, Nutter said:

I do have a relay, but it's just inline between the battery and pump. The old circuit is not involved whatsoever. The other fuzed lead is coming from the ignition fuze in the panel. Followed FASS instructions to a T. Except for the part where they tell you to connect the lead before they tell you to run it through the firewall. So I cut it and reconnected.

 

I guess the easy answer is to check the relay anyway, even though it's new, and to check the ground from the old pump circuit which is going from splice 164 or something.

 

Heading out of town now on the assumption that mechanically and electrically I am fine and the error can't possibly be related to a functional issue.

 

Does anyone know the origin of the P0230? Does it literally originate on wrong voltage from ECM at only that circuit? If so, I'm good. If not, I might be screwed.

 

That isn't correct. Your FASS 95 wiring harness is a direct line from battery to the FASS, then the relay on the Positive side is triggered from the ECM plug that runs to trigger the relay. What did you run through the firewall?

Did you buy a fuel heater kit as well? The reason I ask this is is because the fuel heater kit is about exactly the same but it tells you to wire into ignition.

 

 

18 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

The ECM does not see the lift pump.  

 

Following FASS instructions could cause injury or death.   If you are in an accident and unable to turn off the ignition switch fuel will continue to flow feeding a fire if it should occur.

 

Wired this way the ECM is in control and will stop the lift pump if the engine should stall.

 

@IBMobile The FASS wiring has the 85 ground going back to the ECM as that is how the ecm is wired on my 99. they basically used the ECM plug to energize the relay to power the lift pump.


If course my positive side is wired into my PDC, and my ground to the battery just so you know

Edited January 5, 2019 by pepsi71ocean

[Stanley]

2 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

IBMobile The FASS wiring has the 85 ground going back to the ECM as that is how the ecm is wired on my 99. they basically used the ECM plug to energize the relay to power the lift pump.

I think mine is the same way as yours..

 

To OP, ohms checks? Shorts/grounds?

[Nutter]

The FASS instructions said ground to battery, associated red to battery. Then a hot lead that went to ignition fuze spot. Otherwise connector to pump and that's all.

 

Re: IBMobile, here are my thoughts in order:

1. Funny, FASS must suck

2. No problem, I'm a guy and never have accidents

3. Wait, I live in California, there should be 6 stickers and 8 approvals for me to have this

4. Shoot, he/she is right

 

Thanks for the instructions and wiring advice. I'm calling FASS with this tidbit. Wouldn't this be the same as buying the pump relocation harness or just cutting the end off the original and splicing in?

[pepsi71ocean]

1 hour ago, Nutter said:

The FASS instructions said ground to battery, associated red to battery. Then a hot lead that went to ignition fuze spot. Otherwise connector to pump and that's all.

 

Re: IBMobile, here are my thoughts in order:

1. Funny, FASS must suck

2. No problem, I'm a guy and never have accidents

3. Wait, I live in California, there should be 6 stickers and 8 approvals for me to have this

4. Shoot, he/she is right

 

Thanks for the instructions and wiring advice. I'm calling FASS with this tidbit. Wouldn't this be the same as buying the pump relocation harness or just cutting the end off the original and splicing in?

 

I think your issue is you have a pump for a 3rd gen, or FASS is now making a general kit for the trucks. Either way when you call FASS ***** about the code and see what they say. That's the only thing I can think of. You really should have the relay powered by the ECM fuel pump plug, and You can buy them off amazon if you didn't keep the plug end on the fuel pump. 

My FASS is wired this way from them, the way you describe it sounds like my fass fuel heater, which they said to tie into the ignition switch, however I cut my plug off of the fuel heater and spliced it into my truck fuel heater. So I still have a shut off, but it powers the fuel heater.

[IBMobile]

Is this the installation manual that came with the pump?  I can see way you're befuddled with the outcome.   

https://fassride.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/T-D08-095G-or-T-D08-165G-Install-Manual-1.pdf

Read this article,; it might help you understand how it should be wired.

@pepsi71ocean  and @Stanley if the relay has diode suppression then the signal wire from the ECM has to come to terminal 86 of the relay to prevent damage to either the ECM or the relay itself and 85 is the ground.  This would change if the diode in the wire diagram on the side of the relay is reversed. 

If the relay has no suppression or uses a resistor than it doesn't matter if terminal 85 or 86 is used for the ground.

 

There is no ground for the lift pump in the ECM, only power from the ECM at terminals 15 an 35.  The ground for the OEM lift pump is at G107.

 

Ground, G107, for the OEM lift pump is located on the left side of the engine block beneath the OEM lift pump.

 

 

[Nutter]

Yes, you nailed it. I see the old instructions for the manufacture date of pump before October, describes what people are saying. I had called them on this, they asked for my pump mfg date, 12/18 and they said use the one you reference. I will call again and verify given the situation. It would seem everyone from now on will get a code. It occurred to me during the drive with my trailer and 8 hours of kid activities....

 

duh. no voltage on that circuit is a dead pump to the ECM. Okie dokie sillie Okie y'all...I'm an idiot.

 

I appreciate you guys and your knowledge base. The Duramax forum is a different group for sure. 

[pepsi71ocean]

@IBMobile Yea Those instructions are different from the ones I have. I wonder why they stopped using the ECM harness for the relay trigger.

[IBMobile]

5 hours ago, pepsi71ocean said:

I wonder why they stopped using the ECM harness for the relay trigger.

Those installation instructions are pretty generic; hot and ground at the battery with an ignition switch trigger.  Maybe some person in the office trying to justify their existence by releasing new directions without doing the research of what their product is being installed in.

[pepsi71ocean]

4 hours ago, IBMobile said:

Those installation instructions are pretty generic; hot and ground at the battery with an ignition switch trigger.  Maybe some person in the office trying to justify their existence by releasing new directions without doing the research of what their product is being installed in.

 

Sadly I believe you are correct. I wonder if this happens with the 3rd gen trucks as well. heck I'm not sure the VP-44 would like to be cranking against 20psi of fuel pressure.

[Nutter]

When I get on the phone with FASS tomorrow I'll ask these questions. Would be interested in a Dodge response if anyone knows a Dodge engineer. I'll be sure to post answers.

 

I'mguessing I'm the first since the instructions were updated just a month ago, and the cutoff is 2 months ago.

[pepsi71ocean]

32 minutes ago, Nutter said:

When I get on the phone with FASS tomorrow I'll ask these questions. Would be interested in a Dodge response if anyone knows a Dodge engineer. I'll be sure to post answers.

 

I'mguessing I'm the first since the instructions were updated just a month ago, and the cutoff is 2 months ago.

 

You might as well say that you have hard starting too, pull the relay and she fires right up, after all that's why the the ECM run's 1/2 cycle and even I see 10psi of cranking fuel pressure when cranking.

[Mopar1973Man]

7 to 12 PSI while cranking is normal. Higher pressures create hard starting from over advancement. Also make sure to watch for pressure drop out which is passing air bubbles.

[JAG1]

17 hours ago, IBMobile said:

Those installation instructions are pretty generic; hot and ground at the battery with an ignition switch trigger.  Maybe some person in the office trying to justify their existence by releasing new directions without doing the research of what their product is being installed in.

My sister did this same kind of thing ,different aspect/ subject though, at a good company to work for and she got fired. She still acts like she knows everything unfortunately.

 

Thanks for IBMobile for turning a mix up into clear and simple. BTW, both my seconds are wired like IBMobile way.

Edited January 7, 2019 by JAG1

[Nutter]

A Nutter Update:

Spoke to FASS today regarding the instructions and bypassing the ECM, leaving ignition on as source for pump operation direct from battery. Brought up safety (always on) and ECM and codes, etc.

 

Responses:

1. Difference in instructions - Some high percentage of troubleshooting calls were related pump and harness wiring and codes. Follow-ups (they asked me to follow up also) attributed the majority of those problems to faulty ECM's and/or truck side wiring issues or situations where the ECM wasn't handling the pump correctlyl (unsure of what this meant, i accepted it). This new setup bypasses those issues altogether.

2. My current P0230 - An unconnected connector should not throw a code because the ECM won't read that it's there (versus circuit problem). If i'm throwing a code it's likely an ECM problem or I somehow got fuel or water in the connector before taping it up (although i'm pretty sure i measured correctly for hot voltage and ground resistance in troubleshooting).

3. Overpressurizing VP44 - shouldn't be an issue because FASS returns excess fuel to tank and if the VP can handle it's 18 psi or whatever it's pumping during operation, it can handle it during warming/cranking, in addition to pressure relief valve sending back to tank as well.

4. Safety of always on fuel pump - Turn it off if you're in an accident and not dead. If you are dead and your family is alive, prepare a California compliant sticker for plain view sighting of all seats in the truck that instructs each person in the vehicle on how to properly negotiate a dead body to the ignition and turn the key to the off position. Use of demonstration techniques prior vehicle ignition and safety cards is highly recommended.

 

OK - Number 4 was embelished a little but basically, they said it's all part of the plan. The person who justified their existence, reduced the number of troubleshooting calls dramatically and my ECM is suspect. Did not get the name of the person i spoke to.

[IBMobile]

1.These people are looking at there bottom line.  Customer support takes time and time is money.  The person giving support has to be trained in all the products as well as what the prducts are going into, more money.

  They might have used up all the wire harnesses for these trucks and are now putting out a cheaper generic harness.  Since these trucks are 16 years or older how many more of these pumps are they going to sell.

 

2. If the ECM does not 'see' the fuel pump it will set code p0230;  there is nothing wrong with your ECM.   My truck would set the code p0230 because it has a Fuel Boss pump.  To prevent the code the signal from the ECM is used to trigger the relay for my back up pump but the pump is no used by removing its power fuse.   

 

3. I heard that high fuel pressure can cause hard starting but there are some people with fuel pressure over 20 psi with no problems.   When my truck starts with the Fuel Boss there is 0 psi.   

 

4. I too live in California and will be looking for those stickers.