water methenol injection

[04dodge]

Thinking of water methenol looking for input. is one brand better than another? want it to lower egt. mileage would be nice.

[jordan]

here's a site that has a couple different kits with explanations about each one http://www.xtremediesel.com/methanolinjection_1.aspx , i'm thinking about installing a meth/water set up on my truck with the exception that i'm making it from a fuel injection system off a Chevy venture. you may also want to consider putting a post up in the vendors section of the site as well http://forum.mopar1973man.com/forumdisplay.php/67-Vendors-amp-Dealers

[Mopar1973Man]

If you go this route with water/meth make sure you don't get too crazy with the methanol it can be rather damaging to the engine... Always mix it in proper ratio.

[jordan]

i was thinking of mixing it around 75% water 25% methanol, or perhaps H2O2 (@3%usp) ? http://forum.mopar1973man.com/showthread.php/2281-H2O2-instead-of-meth-water i would love to hear some ideas and theories about this

[dieselautopower]

stay away from h202.hydrogen per oxide is not nice to aluminum (what your pistons are made of)water alone can get you about 20HP from steam and less work from the engine. Make sure you are using at least R.O. water if not distilled as some water has a lot of dissolved minerals... you would not deposits IN your engine. Water/meth kits can be had for under $400

[flatbed56]

Is there any way to figure how much methanol you would use for a certain amount of time. My problem is putting a 5 gallon tank some place, a 1 gallon would be better but would I use it up fast, like long trips with the trailer....thanks

[Wild and Free]

One other thing to remember is that it will increase cylinder pressures also and if you have a stock head gasket yet it may not last long. I would recommend at a minimum if running water or water meth mix to get a set of head studs and o-ring the head.

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeap... W&F is right that you got to becareful about the head gasket. ARP studs will most likely be the next step...

[AH64ID]

Is your 04.5 stock? A Smarty Jr will give you a decent bump in mpg's, and drop the EGT's.. without having to worry about a water tank, and a head gasket.

[KT Performance]

Take a look at this deal, only a couple days left. Kenny

[JOHNFAK]

One other thing to remember is that it will increase cylinder pressures also and if you have a stock head gasket yet it may not last long. I would recommend at a minimum if running water or water meth mix to get a set of head studs and o-ring the head.

Ok - but doesn';t increases fuel do the same thing (Bigger injectors ) ?? So what I thought was basically need head studs once you approach the 450+ HP mark........ doesn;t really matter if thats from fuel or from MWI ?? So - I bought one of these - and just had it all out working last weekend - now just need to get it hooked up. I am mainly using it for EGT reduction. So mainly water or 30% methanol. The guys say this will result in 20-50 RWHP gains. If I go higher than 30% then more. So if I am 230 Stock + 120 EDGE + 20 (other) .... then at 370 HP which is more like 320 RWHP due to inifficiencies ini driveline ?? So either way - 320+50 = 370 HP (methanol) and 370+20 (water) = 390 HP So are studs really required ??? Now if I had 200 HP injectors - maybe a different story just asking

[AH64ID]

What boost levels are you running?

[Rogan]

on my turbo gas car, i run 50/50 washer fluid/distilled water. running an aquamist S1 setup, Hobbs switch at 15psi (you'd prolly raise this for diesel), a 5.5mm jet @ 100psi water pressure, I picked up 47whp @ 11.1 AFR. Again, this is on a gas car.I have the same setup, but a 6mm jet for the truck, just need to put it on, sometime.. I'll be triggering the WI engagement at ~18-20psi boost.On the gas car, I have a 1.5gal reservoir and fill it about 1x per gas tank fillup. Sometimes a little more, depending on how hard I drive the car.I'm putting the jug for the truck, inside the cab, with a check-valve (very important.) Also, ensure you have a fluid level light or something to let you know when you run out. Not so important on a diesel, but a gas car, tuned for it, will pop the motor quick with the surprise lean condition.

[JOHNFAK]

What boost levels are you running?

Around 4-28 daily driving (28 when I stomp on it) generally 4-14 Around 14-28 when towing. I am buying it to lower EGT's whilst towing, so I can then run my juice on levels 3-5 towing. Can't right now as I max out my EGT's on level 2. I didn't go with the HX as this gives me the added option of adding stronger methanol for "fun". I will configure low end to start at @16PSI and to be full @25 PSI - start from there. Going to start in winshield resevoir - but pretty sure I'll end up in back of truck with bigger tank.

on my turbo gas car, i run 50/50 washer fluid/distilled water. running an aquamist S1 setup, Hobbs switch at 15psi (you'd prolly raise this for diesel), a 5.5mm jet @ 100psi water pressure, I picked up 47whp @ 11.1 AFR. Again, this is on a gas car. I have the same setup, but a 6mm jet for the truck, just need to put it on, sometime.. I'll be triggering the WI engagement at ~18-20psi boost. On the gas car, I have a 1.5gal reservoir and fill it about 1x per gas tank fillup. Sometimes a little more, depending on how hard I drive the car. I'm putting the jug for the truck, inside the cab, with a check-valve (very important.) Also, ensure you have a fluid level light or something to let you know when you run out. Not so important on a diesel, but a gas car, tuned for it, will pop the motor quick with the surprise lean condition.

Not doing check valve at this stage as install instructions say only required if you have tank in back of truck - with fluid higher than the injectors (gravity feed)

[Rogan]

Is there any way to figure how much methanol you would use for a certain amount of time. My problem is putting a 5 gallon tank some place, a 1 gallon would be better but would I use it up fast, like long trips with the trailer....thanks

This would be relative to how much and how often you're spraying it. fluid volume is jet size, pressure and time dependent.

Additionally, (from my gas car history) The relationship that you should seek to manage with water injection is the ratio of water to fuel. Metered to exacting proportions as little as 3% water to fuel can replace the amount of heat absorption that fuel previously provided when leaning from 10:1 to 12:1 AFR. There is no system that can meter water in that exacting a relationship with fuel that does not utilize a full fuel injector driver, port installed nozzle jets, high flow pump(s) and a rising rate pressure regulator. At this point you are talking about stand alone engine management and a duplication of the fuel system but for water. That being the case the best solution is to use a system that will get you as close as you can to mirroring the fuel injector flow and run at least 10% water to fuel for margin."

Note: On engines that are highly modified or are used in an extreme racing environment more water can be used.

On to a basic method with which to use in determine what water jet to use on your system.

You would need to know before hand:

1) Capability of the fuel injectors you're using (cc?s per minute)

2) Rated PSI of the water pump that you intend to use

for instance, the fuel injectors in your engine are rated at 577cc/min and you had 6 of them, you would be injecting 3462cc/min of fuel (6 x 577 = 2308cc/min). Take this total and times by a percentage between 10% to 15% or maybe even 20 (highly modified).

Now you need to know the capability of the WI pump you are using. If you are using a pump rated at 100psi, such and such jet might flow 280cc/min but that same jet with a pump rated at 75psi might only inject 215cc/min.

Aquamist jets using Aquamist race pump

Aquamist jets using Aquamist/Shurflo 150 psi pump

NOTE: This is a very simple and not a scientific method but it allows the WI user to have a good starting point from which to begin with. Aquamist sells kits with 3 jets to allow the user to tune the WI system to their needs.

QUESTION: If these calculations are for water, what happens when you add methanol? On some of the Aquamist literature, it says to add .1mm to the jet size for each 25% of methanol you add to your water. How would this convert into other nozzle sizing used, such as M-sizing?

If I'm using an M5 @ 100psi, can I switch to an M5 @ 150 psi with running a 50/50 mix?

ANSWER: All Aquamist flow recommendation are based on the cooling effect due to the latent heat values.

(of course, diesel needs to be added to this chart, for relevance. )

To convert 100% water to 100% methanol, you need to multiply the flow by a factor of approximately x2.5. (methanol's mass is x0.8 of water, so if injecting by volume you need to use the density correction). Most non-Aquamist systems use oil heater nozzles (or similar looking), all based on lb/hr of oil and not litre/hr of water.

[silverram323]

If you want lower egts, get your self some compound turbos. Egts will be a thing of the past.

[JOHNFAK]

If you want lower egts, get your self some compound turbos. Egts will be a thing of the past.

yeah - but my $220 is feeling lighter than a compound at $1500+ proof will be in the pudding as they say ......... still curious about the head studs ..... any1 .......

[guesswho512]

studs are need for increased cylinder pressure(ie. alot of fuel and boost). i have no xp at this, but from what i have read, the head gasket and valve springs are good for 40#. but extra insurance is always nice

[Rogan]

If you want lower egts, get your self some compound turbos. Egts will be a thing of the past.

this is a delicious entree option, but it's not on my dollar menu.. btw, nice avatar.. I like the emblem