Towing upgrades.

[Red00]

So I tow a 10,000# camper with a stock 3500 rwd. I have read that dual turbos afe better for towing. Why is this the case and wouldn't a larger turbo accomplish the same thing? Just trying to wrap my head around some of the concepts.  Thanks

[Mopar1973Man]

7 minutes ago, Red00 said:

So I tow a 10,000# camper with a stock 3500 rwd. I have read that dual turbos afe better for towing. Why is this the case and wouldn't a larger turbo accomplish the same thing? Just trying to wrap my head around some of the concepts.  Thanks

 

Bigger turbo means more lack and more smoke till it spools. Smaller turbos spool faster but cap out early and start to choke on the exhaust side causing heat. 

 

I'm towing larger trailers with HX35/40 Hybrid (60/60/12) this coupled with the Quadzilla Tuner there is no need for bigger turbos too much you can tune most of the heat out with timing and change in fuel map. I was 17,300 pounds going to Mohave Valley AZ and never had a single EGT problem even with climbing all the way to 7,200 feet summit. My problem was transmission heat which was high but damaging 190 to 200*F. 

• 7 x 0.010 Injectors (150 HP) popped at 320 bar.
• Quadzilla Adrenaline (My Towing tune)
• HX35/40 Hybrid (60/60/12)
• 4 Inch exhaust (with exhaust brake)
• BHAF stock air system (excluding turbo)

 

Me on the far left... 62 foot long and no issues.

[Doubletrouble]

@Mopar1973Man, how long is your camper? Weight of camper ready to go?

 Just curious, we've been considering a 5th wheel maybe a couple years down the road. We'll see though.

[Mopar1973Man]

 

46 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

@Mopar1973Man, how long is your camper?

31 foot living area. 296 Cubic feet.

 

46 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Weight of camper ready to go?

Typically really close to 8,000 to 8,500 pounds (GVWR). Fifth wheels are heavier. I only need 15% on the ball or 1,275 pounds on the truck. Where as a 5th wheel is more like 25% that is 2,125 pound on the truck. Then on top I can't carry a ATV in the bed with a 5th wheel. That is another 900 pounds cargo in the truck bed. This can put me close to 20,000 pounds depending on how much more stuff I pack in the truck. I'm registered for 26,000 pounds. 

 

Last camp trip to Lost Valley I was very close to 20,000 pounds. Big BBQ pit, firewood, fuel for the ATV, and the ATV loaded in the bed. This can't be done with a 5th wheel.

 

As for EGT's and coolant that is mostly timing... Get your timing set correctly for the Quadzilla and the EGT's fall like a rock. I've done a bit more tweaking lately and my empty flat ground cruise EGT's are like 500 to 550*F now. Towing I hover about 700*F to 800*F at 65 MPH.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[Red00]

So can a Quadzilla help until I can put some turbos in? Live in NC foothills and mainly go south.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 hour ago, Red00 said:

So can a Quadzilla help until I can put some turbos in?

 

You won't need the turbos if you get the Quadzilla. There is more to it. Like I've change my final ratio. Ditched the 265's and then put on 245/75 R16 30.5" inch tires. This dropped the temp another 100*F towing EGT's. Larger tires than 265's will add EGT's and coolant temp 30 tires tow way easier and better MPG at 14.7 MPG MAX and 12.6 MPG AVG.

 

Basically all I did was remove all my drag to gain performance. For every 1 pound of rotational mass you ditch is like 8 pounds off the frame. Big tires, lift kits, etc all add drag and engine load. This in turn creates mass heat. With the current ratio of 3.69:1 to the ground my RPMs are....

• 66 MPH at 2,000 RPM
• 82 MPH at 2500 RPM

This is optimal. Lower RPM's cause excessive loading and more heat. Higher you stand in the wind is more drag on the truck. 

[Red00]

I am on 235/85R16's. I looked at the HX35/40 will that do a direct bolt as I think the year of my truck it has a HY35.

I am not much on high sitting trucks. That's not a truck it's a toy. They built these with a mission in mind. Wife says why do I want to upgrade then? Well they have used these in larger applications, so I want to tow like a bigger truck.

[015point9]

If you have auto trans... after adding power your transmission might become the weak link, if not built up.

[Red00]

Lost 2nd two years ago and has it fixed. Guy said he put a towing torque converter in it. If course at an additional price. If I go with the 35\40 like moparman says what size injectors about I go with?

[Doubletrouble]

@Mopar1973Man, I mentioned this in another thread but you may have missed it. I know your a big advocate for the quad adrenaline but what are you thoughts on the quadzilla XZT+ module? Mainly if used in a mild truck, mostly stock with maybe +75/+100 injectors?

 Description says the tunes available do change timing and fuel maps.

 Just wondering what your opinion might be or anyone else that has used one here. 

 I ask only because I think the adrenaline would be a bit over my head as far as setting it up, downloading tunes and so forth. The XZT+ seems to be more plug and play.

[Threadzy]

Every truck is different. The XZT has tunes that are “safe” for multiple trucks. It would definitely be better than a stock truck. The Quadzilla  V2 allows you to dial in YOUR truck with the upgrades you’ve done. If you change something like injectors or turbo you just modify your tune. You can make multiple tunes. Tow, daily, economy or balls to the wall. You can change timing in .1 degree increments. You can add fuel or pull fuel. All without a download. Making a tune is very easy. I was worried at first about making a tune but there is so much info on here and knowledgeable people that within a short period of time it will be easy. Buy a tune on here to start out with. Then tweak it to your liking. 

[That Guy]

I think the rest has been mostly covered.

 

Twin turbos are, for this purpose, plumbed in series so that the air flows from one then to the other and finally to the engine. Same in reverse for the exhaust. The idea is that the smaller one spools fast to make up the gap of the larger one. The result is more clean power without the lag. 

 

That said, there are many cheaper and easier things that the others here have mentioned.

 

In the NC hills I bet you are either on or off the throttle. I was always doing 70 down and 40 up. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by That Guy

[Red00]

Yep spend a lot of time in second. Not wanting a speed demon just something that pulls good and don't have to worry about overheating and leaving me and my camper stranded.

 

[That Guy]

It's not for everyone, but if you like to tinker a little, the he351ve vgt off the newer trucks is a small upgrade. Me78569 has a full build/parts list thread for a 24v truck. The exhaust brake is a nice feature, and what ultimately attracted me to it. I was able to do 55 up Mont Eagle with no heat issues with power left and then maintain 55 down the other side without touching the brakes while towing ~10,000lbs.

 

If you have tried all the other things and still want more, it's an idea.

[NIsaacs]

5 hours ago, Red00 said:

Yep spend a lot of time in second. Not wanting a speed demon just something that pulls good and don't have to worry about overheating and leaving me and my camper stranded.

 

 

You are running a stock truck. Twins are for serious hp, is that what you are looking for? That will require numerous and spendy supporting mods.

 

An Edge EZ is a great bump in towing power, plug and play, adds about 60hp/180tq. You will need to add a full set of gauges, boost, pyro, fuel pressure and trans temp. An Edge monitor will do them all. You might want/need an upgraded lift pump but that is about all to run the EZ.

 

If down the road that is not enough, then add RV injectors, another 30-40hp/90tq boost.

 

Next upgrade is sell the EZ and go big.....but that is $$$.

[Mopar1973Man]

13 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

I know your a big advocate for the quad adrenaline but what are you thoughts on the quadzilla XZT+ module?

 

No good... Unless totally stock and never plan on upgrading period. No way to adjust timing to fit you upgrades. One reason why I dropped the Edge Comp. Once I got to +50HP injectors the timing was all wrong. more smoke and retarded timing. So you end up upgrading twice because the tuner is just a canned tune for stock injectors. 

 

Timing is the biggest factor to EGT's and MPG's. If you can't adjust the timing you typically sub-optimal... The only way to keep it under control is drive 55 MPH as a max speed. Once your engine load is above 20% or so the cruise timing is gone. Again canned tuner don't allow for this adjustment.

 

So like I've got a towing tune (Adrenaline) with the cruise limit opened to 33% engine load, again canned tuners (XZT or EZ) can't do this. 

[Red00]

So let's say that I decided to go with the 35/40 that moparman suggests and maybe 50 hp injectors with the Quadzilla is this gonna require new head studs and should they go in before?

[Mopar1973Man]

Stock turbo with +50 HP injectors are fine. Turbo only considered after about 100 to 150 HP injectors. Your stock HY35 turbo will be fine for about 300 to 350 HP total. 

[Red00]

Good to know. I know I'm probably asking questions that have been answered previously. I think I will look at 50 - 75 injectors. This maybe a stupid ? but if the Quadzilla shows all this info do I still need to invest in gauges? ( mechanical/ digital)  Will I need to put head studs? One more and I'll quit. Rockers and push rods are there better ones out there that will cut down on noise?

[Mopar1973Man]

Better to have gauges. Personally. Boost on the Quadzilla reports Im reaching 69 PSI of boost when the gauge shows 45 to 47 actually. Not the Qaud per se it the MAP sensor. Its good till about 25 PSI after that it skews for me.