Thuren alignment specs?

[dieseldon]

I have a question for anyone that might come across this that has the T -stearing linkage/tie rods on their truck.

Any experience with the "Thuren alignment specs" ? Very specific that you have t-style linkage or disregard spec's,   0.0 - 0.05 toe and 3.8 - 4.2 caster, I believe the emphasis is on the 0.0 toe?

Just had it aligned and NOT happy with factory spec's, always holding the steering wheel to one side or the other, back and forth, back and forth...

 Anyone know a good alignment shop in Boise/treasure valley area?

  Thanks!

[Mopar1973Man]

I'm still on the old style Y steering (OEM parts). I know there is a few on hear that have done the T style steering. 

[dieseldon]

https://www.thurenfabrication.com/tech/alignment-and-handling.html

Alignment according to thuren.

I'm willing to hear anyone elses ideas also.

  

     Thanks.

[Haggar]

Don,

 

The normal toe for our trucks is +/- 0.1 degrees.  So he has tightened that up a bit.   Same with the castor.  He is in the right range, he just removed the -1.0 degrees the factor allows.  (factory is X */- 1.0,  Thuren is basically X + 1.0degrees) I think his emphasis, is the castor.   Do you have a 4wd or 2 wd?   on the 4wd we have a lot of issues with castor.   Castor will directly affect how the steering "re-centers" itself.  too much Toe will cause wander. (the truck will feel "darty" )  You can easily play with your own toe, and see if it helps your problem.    Someone here recently said the alignment shop could not correct his castor and he had a 2wd.....  that is just a lazy shop.

 

GL

Hag

[AH64ID]

I’m running thuren specs on my ‘18. 
 

I didn’t go anywhere fancy for my alignment, just Commercial Tire. 

[Mopar1973Man]

Bruneel Tire In McCall was my FIRST time for my truck at 350k miles after doing tie rod ends.$60 bucks and good as gold...

[dieseldon]

Thanks for the input, mine is 4x4, if you read the article we're talking about solid axles, he says 0.08 total toe is too much.

I had les Schwab do mine awhile ago after putting in the 08+ tie rod setup and some other stuff, set to factory specs, hate it, they said they would set it to the Thuren spec's, but he'd never heard of it before, said my tires would wear out faster, (contrary to the article) and for another $90. Hence the reason I'm looking for others experience and possibly another shop. I asked them to look over all the ft.end parts to make sure everything was good, but I don't think they ever did, could have stuck ball joints for all I know? Visually they looked fine but I never really tested to see if they were good and slippery, I guess there's a way to check but I need to follow up with that.

 

I might have to try to find someone youtube videos to see if I can do this myself? Then I can adjust as needed for whatever feels good to me, and actually check ball joints and? Supposedly one of the easiest front ends to align?? Not sure if you need fancy equipment or just a tape measure?

 

  Thanks again!

[AH64ID]

I would talk to the manager at Schwab again, they have a warranty on their alignment. Tell them what they did isn’t working correctly. If they refuse ask for your money back. 

[dieseldon]

Moparman, I'd love to try a second gen that's as "good as gold" I can't help wondering if you've been driving one for so long you don't know the difference between that and a good driving truck, lol!

 I've been driving chevy/gm trucks since '80s up till my 08 that I sold to buy this 01 cummins, if I had the resources I'd put this cummins engine in any year gm I'd ever owned, the independent ft. suspension is light years ahead of these things IMO.

 But honestly I haven't driven many seconds gens to compare, pretty much mine and my son's '99 and mine is way better than his!

And mine's more comparable to a tractor than any gm I've had, but I'm still holding out hope!

[Dieselfuture]

I did the tape measure one, seems to work good with no abnormal wear. As close to 0 toe as I could do. 

[dieseldon]

Thanks Dieselfutue, do you have any specific directions/link to the "tape measure one" ?

Do you use the Thuren specs? Obviously you shoot for zero toe but he calls for a lot of caster too?

I went back to les Schwab today, (different location ) at least he took it for a test drive and confirmed it drove wonkey. Besides the wander it pulls to the left. He put it up on the rack and said everything seemed good with alignment and parts wise. He wasn't convinced the Thuren specs would do me any good and suggested $200 plus labor offset upper ball joints?

I wasn't thrilled about that prospect then he was suddenly convinced something was wrong with my tires, even though I just put on my winter studs (the prior owner gave me) and was doing same as before. 

I just ended up taking home frustrated, I switched front ones to see if it pulled opposite, nope!

 

In that Thuren article he say's you can adjust cross caster to correct a pull to one side, I'm assuming you adjust those cam bolts on lower control arm? Anyone know which one and what direction if it pulls left?

 

   Thanks!

 

[Haggar]

There is one adjustment (cam) bolt on each side, lower control arm at the axle.  For most trucks the, the cam should be forward (the bolt should be towards the rear)

 

rotate the cam in the direction of the red arrow.   The cam shown is in the mid position.  I am not sure why people jump to adjustable ball joints right off the bat.

 

 

HTH

Hag

[dieseldon]

 

 

 

 

Thanks Hagar, I might experiment with those.

I just wish I knew which one turns which way to compensate for a left pull?

Your picture is showing right inside can bolt turning counter clockwise, not sure if you're just pointing out the bolts and general position or?

  Don't know why I can't load a picture today?

My driver's side, outer looking right behind wheel, marker line is at 12 o-clock, passenger side is about between ten and eleven.

[AH64ID]

Again, if Schwab admits it drives off and won’t redo the alignment then you should get your money back. 
 

Why didn’t they tell you the ball joints were worn the first time? 

[Haggar]

do the cam bolts look like they were touched recently?  They SHOULD have been adjusted during your front end alignment.  It sounds like to me, that you got a "toe and go".  Sorry you don't have good people to help you diagnose and understand your front end.

 

There is a slot in the bracket.  there is a hole in the front lower control arm bushing.  Since the eccentric washer is keyed to the bolt, as you turn the bolt, it will move in the slot.  (notice the C shaped piece with the notches on it, it is welded to the bracket forcing the eccentric washer to push  the bolt.)

 

So you loosen the nut on the back side.  Turn the bolt until the fat part of the eccentric is toward the front axle. tighten the nut on the back side.  This will give you the most caster you can achieve with your present setup.  (you may have to lift the front axle up a bit with a jack to get it to move easily.)

 

Pull, if the alignment is the only issue, is due to positive camber.  by rolling both lower eccentrics fully forward, (making the lower control arm as long a possible) may compensate for that.   This will affect toe also as we are actually rolling the axle, but that is all we have.  The front axle has a "fixed" caster angle.  go for a drive.

[dieseldon]

 

Thanks for the info, yeah they don't look like they have been touched recently.

Might play around with later.

 

I'd show were mine are sitting but pic's won't upload!

FYI, here is my printout

 

[Dieselfuture]

What they said^^^

 

[dieseldon]

41 minutes ago, Dieselfuture said:

What they said^^^

 

I'm confused, they? An adjustable ball joint?

Haven't had a chance to adjust cam bolts yet, will update..

11 hours ago, AH64ID said:

Again, if Schwab admits it drives off and won’t redo the alignment then you should get your money back. 
 

Why didn’t they tell you the ball joints were worn the first time? 

It's been about two and a half months, technically only guaranteed for thirty days, my hunch is they didn't check anything as far as look for worn parts the first time, this time they didn't say my ball joints were worn out, just suggested  adjustable uppers for big $$ and weren't sure it would help.

They were willing to readjust to the other spec's but another $90 and assured me it would do no good.

That's why I left frustrated, they basically said, well tuff luck, can I help the next customer?

[Dieselfuture]

3 minutes ago, dieseldon said:

I'm confused, they? An adjustable ball joint?

Haven't had a chance to adjust cam bolts yet, will update..

No cam bolts, I still need to do this myself. As for tierods I have a 3d gen T style one, took few tries with tape measure and now it seems really good, no abnormal wear on tires after 7-8 k a season, then I rotate tires. If anything you want 0 toe or just a tiny bit positive. There are more than one way of doing it. I had axle on jackstands, spun tire holding a screwdriver so I had a straight line then did my best measuring. When I did adjustment tires were on the ground, not sure what's the best way, it worked for me. 

[dieseldon]

Thanks, I may try that, the funny thing is les Schwab was trying to tell me I needed more negative toe!

Just simply would not listen, I showed them the spec's, zero toe, more caster!