First experience with death wobble!

[Mopar1973Man]

8 hours ago, Doubletrouble said:

@Mopar1973Man, have you ever replaced the track bar or bushings? With the miles you have I would assume so.

 If it's the bushing would a polyurethane be a better replacement?

 

Replace the entire track bar about every 100k to 150k so. Why bother with changing the bushing just replace the entire track bar. By 100 to 150k miles I just replace it take only like 15 mintues.

 

Just checked NAPA there is a option for $104... Then the premium I would guess is $209... 

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NCG2724229

Edited November 23, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[Doubletrouble]

 any idea what the warranty is on the one in the link? it just said "download" , i didn't want to download a pdf for warranty info.

[Mopar1973Man]

1 minute ago, Doubletrouble said:

 any idea what the warranty is on the one in the link? it just said "download" , i didn't want to download a pdf for warranty info.

 

Beautiful thing about Linux... PDF documents are automatically displayed no software required. Doing you a favor I downloaded it and then uploaded to this message for ya.

 

686356pdf.pdf

[Doubletrouble]

 Thank you. Looks like limited lifetime warranty, then in another 150k miles i get another, lol

 Looks like i have some work to do. Check the track bar and replace if needed, still have to test and diagnose my grid heater low voltage issue as well. {from another thread} things keep adding up. It will be one thing at a time with xmas right around the corner.

[LorenS]

1 hour ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Then the premium I would guess is $209

NAPA stuff is Federal Mogul, right?

Someone is playing games with me, then, because this AC Delco Professional branded unit is $98 and has the EXACT. SAME. PHOTOS! I switched back and forth about a dozen times looking for differences.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2001,ram+2500+pickup,5.9l+l6+diesel+turbocharged,1366602,suspension,track+bar,7500

[Doubletrouble]

 The Moog part just above it lists for $84.79 and is also lifetime limited warranty. 

 Wonder how many different companies REALLY make these and what the differences are. 

[LorenS]

2 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Wonder how many different companies REALLY make these

My guess is not many make the bar, but may very well machine it and put their own guts in it. The drag link I installed today had MOOG stamped into the caps(?) where the zerk goes, and the dust boot. Nothing on the forging. But truthfully, the guts are the important part that wears out, not the bar itself.

[Doubletrouble]

I just wonder, is it worth the extra money to buy the napa part when the Moog from RA is also lifetime and less than half the price. Although it would be easier to obtain a replacement from a local store rather than an online retailer.

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, LorenS said:

NAPA stuff is Federal Mogul, right?

Someone is playing games with me, then, because this AC Delco Professional branded unit is $98 and has the EXACT. SAME. PHOTOS! I switched back and forth about a dozen times looking for differences.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2001,ram+2500+pickup,5.9l+l6+diesel+turbocharged,1366602,suspension,track+bar,7500

Not all... just this piece was a Federal Mogul. Ive seen some that is Moog too, like the upgrade tie rods.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

Did zny of you notice the 2 piece adjustable one  by profirged on RA?

[Mopar1973Man]

I see it being great for leveled trucks but I don't see it lasting any longer than solid track bar.

[dripley]

I might entertain the thought of using one but dont know anything about. I can as many good reviews on their products as I can about. A lot folks still swear by MOOG. Mine from 9 years ago are still holding up well.  But 130k to 140k is the life I see out of there track bars.

Just now, dripley said:

I might entertain the thought of using one but dont know anything about. I can as many good reviews on their products as I can about. A lot folks still swear by MOOG. Mine from 9 years ago are still holding up well.  But 130k to 140k is the life I see out of their track bars.

 

[jltait]

If it's front end parts that are hard to replace, then I use a known high quality part, such as Napa's premium line. If it's something I can change in 20-40 minutes, like a track bar, I don't think too much about it. 

I bought my truck with bad ball joints, bad track bar, and bad steering stabilizer. It never exhibited death wobble with all of those bad parts. I changed out the track bar, never had death wobble. I then moved on to the driver side ball joints, after the driver side was done, I decided to drive it for a few weeks. I ended up with death wobble, scared me half to death. I put a steering stabilizer, the old one was terribly bad, and it stopped the death wobble, but still felt vague, like it could death wobble at any minute, but never did. Once I got around to changing the passenger side ball joints, it started to feel solid, and safe like I would expect. It's my opinion that the reason it never wobbled with all bad ball joints is that the cross caster was still in check since they were all bad, but once I changed one side, the cross caster was out, and the tires were fighting side to side.

[jltait]

I've been running the Dorman Premium Chassis D1413XL track bar, for $63 from Summit Racing. I don't have a lot of miles on it....about 7500 or so, but for 15-20 minutes and $63 dollars, I've been happy with it. Get the order up to $100 and it all ships for free. 

 

When it's not loose parts, I am a firm believer that Death Wobble is caused by a combination of Toe and Cross Caster. Cross Caster is hard to fix (on solid axle pickups), an offset ball joint is about the only way. Keeping the toe close to zero, adding caster (overall caster, not cross caster), and a steering stabilizer can often times fix a death wobble issue when this is the case. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by jltait

[Mopar1973Man]

When I'm doing a oil change typically... I will park the truck in the shop and pop the drain on the pan. Then I move on to lubing the steering and suspension linkage. I will jack each side up and pry a bit to see if there is excessive play in anything. Tie rods, track bar, ball joints etc. If anything is wore or looks to be getting loose then I just replace it. My problem is everything on my truck last a long time. Ball joints are going past 200k miles now (cheap RockAuto). Track bars yeah don't last nearly as long but still good life span. 

 

Little trick for future info... Sharing my shop tricks. 

 

After my little ball joint explosion. I realize that you don't have to press the old joint out in one piece. You can cut the cap end off with a saw, grinder (cutoff wheel), or a torch. Then push the ball stud out. Then using a hacksaw do a relief cut in the cup body strike the cup on each side and it falls out. Then you can take a hone brush and hone the hole out just a little to remove the rust and junk. Now lube it up with plenty of anti-seize and press the new one back in.  Much easier way. Half the time as usual.

 

Just like next wheel joints (u-joints in the axle) I will just take a torch and cut the cross out and let it fall out and then drive the bearing cups inward till they fall out. Then using a hone brush again and clean up the holes a little bit and press in new u-joints. I learned this with the 3rd gens and there crappy way of using plastic to hold the bearing caps in place. Just another way to do the same job. 

[Doubletrouble]

 I like the little trick for getting old ball joints out. 

 How do you explain:

9 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

My problem is everything on my truck last a long time. Ball joints are going past 200k miles now (cheap RockAuto). Track bars yeah don't last nearly as long but still good life span. 

 Assuming that the ball joint did not last that long before, what's the change?

Edited November 23, 2020 by Doubletrouble
Spellin

[Mopar1973Man]

11 minutes ago, Doubletrouble said:

Assuming that the ball joint did not last that long before, what's the change?

 

The stock OEM lasted 180k miles. Back then I was still running 265's. Since then I dropped to 235's tires and now later on yet switch to 245's tires. Never ran large tires since then. Ditch the aluminum wheel for stock steel wheels that are 16 x 7 wheels slightly smaller, the aluminum mags were 16 x 8.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Mopar1973Man

[dripley]

22 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Replace the entire track bar about every 100k to 150k so. Why bother with changing the bushing just replace the entire track bar. By 100 to 150k miles I just replace it take only like 15 mintues

Thats what I am seeing with mine also. It is easy to change out. Dont know that I ever wore the bushing out. The ball joint has always gone first.

I buy a good many from RA, Some have a lifetime warranty. But at the price I get them I dont worry about a warranty in the long run on run of the mill stuff. I just buty another. Some of the stuff aint worth the hassell.

[jltait]

57 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

After my little ball joint explosion. I realize that you don't have to press the old joint out in one piece. You can cut the cap end off with a saw, grinder (cutoff wheel), or a torch. Then push the ball stud out. Then using a hacksaw do a relief cut in the cup body strike the cup on each side and it falls out. Then you can take a hone brush and hone the hole out just a little to remove the rust and junk. Now lube it up with plenty of anti-seize and press the new one back in.  Much easier way. Half the time as usual.

I like this Idea for ball joint replacement. I had to heat the axle yoke quite a lot to get mine out, even with the heat it put a lot of stress on my ball joint tool and took me a good long time. This sounds like a better removal solution. I will also give a big shout out to EMF for their ball joints. I used AC Delco professionals on the driver side before I heard of EMF a short time later. The AC Delco's will probably last the life of the truck at the rate I put mile on it now, but I really like that the EMF's I put on the passenger side can be rebuilt. I'll for sure be looking at them again, when it's time to replace bj's on the 4th gen.

Edited November 24, 2020 by jltait

[Dieselfuture]

1 hour ago, jltait said:

When it's not loose parts, I am a firm believer that Death Wobble is caused by a combination of Toe and Cross Caster.

Back in the day friend of mine had an early 80s chevy, of course we jacked it up 12" with 3" body lift and put some 44 tsl's on it, man talk about death wobble, we were going to an off road park on hwy which has been closed for quite a while now thanks to local government and not wanting people enjoy life, and it started hopping so bad we went of on shoulder almost in the ditch. Everything seemed tight on front end, the only thing I can think of the axle was rotated from the lift so much that's what did it. Idk but it did that to him every so often, he never did fix it had some fun off-roading then sold it to some guy he met at the park.