Cutting Out Under Hard Acceleration/Above 68 MPH+ 2500 4x4 47re

[wil440]

40 minutes ago, JAG1 said:

Fass has been known to fail very soon after install. We have a recent situation that took out a new VP44. It happened to a truck Michael Nelson has on in his yard now

If this is so why are electric lift pumps recommended to everyone.... I'm so glad I listened to no one and went mechanical... sorry mate but anything electric I can bin the better 

[JAG1]

1 minute ago, wil440 said:

If this is so why are electric lift pumps recommended to everyone.... I'm so glad I listened to no one and went mechanical... sorry mate but anything electric I can bin the better 

Only Fass is developing as unreliable as compared to others such as Raptor or Air Dog which are doing okay in spite of some issues. Like anything in life everything has some degree of disadvantage and advantage. Problem is you guys with the mechanical lift pumps always try throwing us lectric pump guys under the bus...... well ain't going to happen here... me put on armor plate and for Wil440 you only need 1/16th thick shield and a high idle stick to fight back, lol.

[wil440]

slick reply my friend

[MarkG]

Hello again.  It's been months and I'm still perplexed with my truck.  At this point I've done the AC ripple test (pass), drove without the alternator connected, no change.  Again I cleaned all the battery terminals and noticed the positive from the main battery to the dist. box had a little corrosion where it goes into the terminal so I cut it off, cut about an inch of wire off, soldered a new connector on and now have it attached to the terminal bolt.  No change.  In fact things are getting worse.  It's running rougher and rougher.  I did however notice something interesting...our drive way is on a hill with a couple of left turns.  Every time I'm making these slight left turns the truck craps out and stutters (even with a full tank of fuel).  I've looked at all wiring I can see so far and can't find anything out of the ordinary or broken.  Hoping maybe the symptom of cutting out while going up hill and making a left turn might click with somebody.  Could it be the computer?  One last thing to add....about a month ago I was headed to town for a dump run and on the freeway I could not believe how good the truck was running.  It was smooth at 75!!!!  I was shocked and remarked to myself how great it was to feel it running so well.  On my way home I came off an overpass that had a huge bump and it was my first experience with death wobble!  FUN!!!  I was going about 70 and the truck started violently shaking.  The dirt from my floor boards was in my face.  It was insane and a total surprise.  What a treat!  Anyhow I was able to keep control of the truck.  Everybody on the freeway gave me space thankfully.  After the death wobble stopped the truck was running TERRIBLE, worse than even before.  Maybe that's worth something here?  VP?  Computer?  Anyway, So now on top of a horrible running truck I'm facing an entire front axle rebuild.  Not very interested in rebuilding the axle until the damn thing is running properly.  Heartbreaking and depressing honestly.  Truck is still very clean at 153,XXX miles.  Any input is welcome.  Thank you all.

[Silverwolf2691]

Did you look at all of your grounds for them being loose? The one under the drivers battery has seemed notorious for coming loose recently. Might explain the left turn cut out too.

 

After actually reading your thread, you rewired your truck? to what extent? It really sounds like a wire being pinched or moving with the body/frame.. 

 

Check your track bar for being loose. Cause number one of death wobble. Ball joints are second I think.      

Edited September 28, 2021 by Silverwolf2691

[MarkG]

15 minutes ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

Did you look at all of your grounds for them being loose? The one under the drivers battery has seemed notorious for coming loose recently. Might explain the left turn cut out too.

 

After actually reading your thread, you rewired your truck? to what extent? It really sounds like a wire being pinched or moving with the body/frame.. 

 

Check your track bar for being loose. Cause number one of death wobble. Ball joints are second I think.      

 

Thank you.  I did the W-T ground mod.  Will check the ground under the driver's battery today as I have not checked that one yet.  I purchased a track bar from Dodge Off Road.  It's in my shop in the box....still need to put it on.  Not worried about the front axle.  That's all simple nuts and bolts.  This electrical issue has been plaguing me for a couple of years now and getting worse and worse.  I appreciate your input.  Hope that ground under the battery solves my problem.

[MarkG]

11 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

Did you look at all of your grounds for them being loose? The one under the drivers battery has seemed notorious for coming loose recently. Might explain the left turn cut out too.

 

After actually reading your thread, you rewired your truck? to what extent? It really sounds like a wire being pinched or moving with the body/frame.. 

 

Check your track bar for being loose. Cause number one of death wobble. Ball joints are second I think.      

 

Okay, today I pulled my batteries out and traced down all the grounds.  Everything is solid and clean.  The battery terminals and all connections at the batteries was clean and I cleaned it all again during reassembly and shot some anti corrosion stuff on all those connections.  I checked all the connections and wires I made during the W-T ground system mod.  Everything there checked out fine.  I pulled the BHAF and intake hose and poked all around the computer and checked out the block ground.  All good.  Reassembled everything and went for a drive.  Same ol', same ol'.  Made a left onto the highway from a stop sign and it coughed and sputtered.  Pulling up my driveway at the left turns I over exaggerated the turns and it sputters and misses.  Sounds like it's running out of fuel but the way it's triggered makes me think it's an electrical issue.  Once again, any input is welcome.  Tomorrow I'm going to install the Dodge Off Road track bar.  

[IBMobile]

Have you tried the push-n-pull test.  You do this with the truck running; you push and pull on every part of the engine wire harness and all connectors.

[wil440]

I know you said previously that there is no codes when it's running rough but would you by any chance be able to beg/ borrow a newer Snap On Modis or similar then read all the live data when driving, more than likely need assistance to drive and read but that should show something if it's electrical.

You can set several (4 at a time IIRC) inputs to display a graph and change the timescales to in effect zoom in, also able to record for analysis later, just do the lot but 4 at a time and look for blips

The left turn is quite odd, as been said before wiring shorting etc. One other thing is the tank pickup clean and nothing in the tank, I have seen rag put into fuel tanks just for badness, how easy would it be to run it out of a drum in the bed to test, maybe run the pipe from the drum directly to the Fass and remove all the truck lines etc from the test

[Silverwolf2691]

10 hours ago, MarkG said:

Tomorrow I'm going to install the Dodge Off Road track bar.  

 

Word of advice, swap the zerk fitting for a 45° or 90° one, and face it towards the bar. The straight one doesn't clear the bracket axle side on my truck. cant get the grease gun to quite lock on and just gets grease everywhere except in the Johnny Joint.  

 

@IBMobile, what are the odds the left turn issue is in the cab by the steering shaft or something like that? There's not really wiring anywhere else that would contact the steering.. unless I'm mistaken.

 

@MarkG could you upload a video to YouTube going up your driveway or similar so we can see and hear what the truck is doing?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Silverwolf2691

[MarkG]

11 hours ago, IBMobile said:

Have you tried the push-n-pull test.  You do this with the truck running; you push and pull on every part of the engine wire harness and all connectors.

 

I will do that today.  There is nothing obviously loose or swinging.  Everything is tidy and tight from my exploration yesterday.  I'll put on my ear protection and see if I can't find something.  Thank you.

[IBMobile]

The wiring that runs along the steering column in the cab is shielded from it's rotational movement.   There have been reports of wire brakeage at the point where they flex due to the column tilt feature.   OP stated that the problem all so occurs " under hard acceleration from low speeds to highway speed and also cruising along above about 68 MPH" where steering is at a minimum.

[MarkG]

2 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

 

Word of advice, swap the zerk fitting for a 45° or 90° one, and face it towards the bar. The straight one doesn't clear the bracket axle side on my truck. cant get the grease gun to quite lock on and just gets grease everywhere except in the Johnny Joint.  

 

@IBMobile, what are the odds the left turn issue is in the cab by the steering shaft or something like that? There's not really wiring anywhere else that would contact the steering.. unless I'm mistaken.

 

@MarkG could you upload a video to YouTube going up your driveway or similar so we can see and hear what the truck is doing?

 

Thank you for that advice.  At nearly $600 I'm a little bummed to have to do anything to that bar.  It took over 5 weeks to get it.  That was pretty disappointing considering how simple that part is to fabricate. 

 

Now that I can repeat results and get the truck to stumble and cough on demand I'll shoot a video and share it with you all. 

2 minutes ago, IBMobile said:

The wiring that runs along the steering column in the cab is shielded from it's rotational movement.   There have been reports of wire brakeage at the point where they flex due to the column tilt feature.   OP stated that the problem all so occurs " under hard acceleration from low speeds to highway speed and also cruising along above about 68 MPH" where steering is at a minimum.

 

Yes I did post that originally.  However the problem is becoming a problem at any speeds or acceleration level and while turning hard to the left.  

6 hours ago, wil440 said:

I know you said previously that there is no codes when it's running rough but would you by any chance be able to beg/ borrow a newer Snap On Modis or similar then read all the live data when driving, more than likely need assistance to drive and read but that should show something if it's electrical.

You can set several (4 at a time IIRC) inputs to display a graph and change the timescales to in effect zoom in, also able to record for analysis later, just do the lot but 4 at a time and look for blips

The left turn is quite odd, as been said before wiring shorting etc. One other thing is the tank pickup clean and nothing in the tank, I have seen rag put into fuel tanks just for badness, how easy would it be to run it out of a drum in the bed to test, maybe run the pipe from the drum directly to the Fass and remove all the truck lines etc from the test

 

I'll call around but I don't think that I'll be able to get my hands on that Snap On tool.  I have been thinking about the fuel pickup.  But I never see my fuel pressure gauge do anything out of the ordinary.  If it was sucking air wouldn't I see the gauge going crazy? 

 

I have had an XDP fuel sump kit on my desk for about 8 years.  Always been meaning to install it, never have.  What are your thoughts on those?  Good Idea?  Install it? 

[Silverwolf2691]

1 hour ago, MarkG said:

Thank you for that advice.  At nearly $600 I'm a little bummed to have to do anything to that bar.  It took over 5 weeks to get it.  That was pretty disappointing considering how simple that part is to fabricate. 

 

The Johnny Joint is a purchased part so its whatever Currie decides to send with them.. DOR usually stocks those, kind of surprised that it took that long. Hope its from the pandemic and he's not slipping back into old habits..

[Great work!]

Try putting some clear hose in the fuel supply line and loop it up to the windshield so you can watch for air bubbles.

[IBMobile]

3 hours ago, MarkG said:

What are your thoughts on those?  Good Idea?  Install it? 

I wouldn't.  Some people here like them and others had to replace there tanks after installing a sump. @015point9 can tell you about his bad experience with one.

[Mopar1973Man]

Yeah the few that called me installed a sump then ended up with leaks later and now replacing the entire fuel tank. Very hard to find good fuel tanks in a salvage yard. I do not suggest or recommend a sump on any truck.

 

Top draw is the best. The biggest problem no one knows out to properly install a straw. The first thing is measure on a empty tank ONLY! Make sure the entire tank is empty! Now lay a quarter (coin) on the bottom and measure to the thickness of a quarter. This is the tightest tolerance now. ONLY cut straight! No weird cuts at 45 or anything else. Now with the tank coming empty the straw will be able to draw up the last bit of fuel. Now on a full tank diesel is roughly 6.1 pounds per gallon. That roughly 213 pounds of fuel this will cause the bottom of the tank to deflect downward another roughly 1/4 to 3/8 of a inch so you'll never suck the straw to the bottom. I've been set up this way for over 15 years and never had big problems with getting to the EMPTY mark. 

[MarkG]

Well yesterday I installed the Dodge Off Road track bar.  It went really smoothly and I'm shocked at how much of a difference it made even at low speeds.  The truck drives so much better it's pretty wild.  BTW I ordered the bar 8/3 and it shipped out on 9/7.  So not 5 weeks, just 4.5, then another week in the hands of UPS.  If I would have known it was a 6+ week wait to get it in my hands I probably would have tried building one myself.  However I'm glad I didn't know or try to build one.  There's just too much on my plate and there's no way my first one would have come out as nice as the Dodge Off Road piece.  It really is super nice.

 

After the track bar install I did the push/pull test on all the wires under the hood.  Could not make any symptoms appear during all the yanking while the engine was idling.  Once I got it moving on the road I could get it to stumble under acceleration.  And that is happening at almost any speed now and just cruising down the road at 55 it can be felt as well.  I will take the advice above and NOT install the fuel sump.  I have not installed it for all these years because of the reasons listed by you guys up there.  It was really easy to picture that thing covered in diesel and slowly seeping away no matter how tight the bolts are.  We have a mile of dirt road to my house.  It would have been a mess.  I think a draw straw will be my next move.  Trying to come up with a flow chart of cheaper/sensible things to replace before I purchase another VP44.  I have a Fass Titanium 95gph lift pump with 1/2" line.  Is there any reason to look for another draw straw besides the one Fass makes?  I'll try to shoot some video of the issues today.