Anti Gel

[jlwelding]

Its supposed to get down to 0 here in Tx. Will two stroke keep it from gelling?

 

[Mopar1973Man]

2 cycle oil has a pour point of -40°F which at 128:1 ratio should help with blocking gelling. Fuel supply should be already using PPD in the fuels nation wide just in the south not as strong. Im starting out super cold  here.

 

 

 

Now I'm heading to Lewiston ID.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[Towrigdually]

That’s what I’ve been using here in Oklahoma, no issues yet. 

[LorenS]

I'm glad I'm not in northern MN!

[Mopar1973Man]

Another morning about the same for me. Yesterday I went out cycled the grid heater twice fire up normally at +12*F no problem. Warmed up in about 5 minutes road travel shedding ice from the windshield. No block heater was plugged in. 

 

Part of my trick.

• Winter fronts are inserted into the grill. This holds more heat for the IAT without all the cold blowing through the intercooler.
• Stock filter and fuel heater still in the system. Stock fuel heater does a excellent job of heating the fuel and continue to warm the fuel from manifold heat.
• AirDog pump is not in the damage path of the tires but tucked behind my transfer case. It is not in the blowing wind nor could it be struck with snow and ice.
• Most of my fuel line are not exposed but hidden inside the frame rail. As soon the lines leave the AirDog the line are routed inside the frame.
• Fuel Temp and IAT Temp run together being the fuel absorb heat from the coolant passage near the stock filter.

 

428k miles never used anti-gel nor have I had a time where fuel gelled even once. Operating all the way down to -30*F to -40*F.

 

Old photo but above is true.

 

Here is where people get in trouble...

 

 

• Pump is in the damage path of both the front and rear tires and snow and ice can be slung on the pump. This can get enough moisture inside the pump is freeze and lock it up.
• Blowing cold air over the filter taking the heat out of the fuel. Promoting gelling issues. 
• More plumbing and pump base exposed to direct blowing wind.

 

Something a FASS 150 cannot do like an AirDog 150. They are more prone to gelling and freezing because of the large size.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[LorenS]

Granted I don't have the air separation feature, but I sure like my in-line setup! Not an inline pump, but the DDRP on the inside of frame along with the pre-strainer, then stock filter. Can't imagine a manufacturer would suggest outside of frame rail!

[Mopar1973Man]

21 hours ago, LorenS said:

Granted I don't have the air separation feature, but I sure like my in-line setup! Not an inline pump, but the DDRP on the inside of frame along with the pre-strainer, then stock filter. Can't imagine a manufacturer would suggest outside of frame rail!

 

FASS has for years been outside the frame rail. AirDog had what I've got as a short bed bracket and the long bed bracket was still to be used again the frame on the inside but now the filter hung below the frame line and also in the damage path of the tires. I've got both brackets. The long bed bracket with damage path from the fron tires I had all the paint of the filter sandblasted off in a mere week. Then when travel dirt road they where covered in mud all the time. Since going back to my short bed bracket which broke under warranty (this how I got the long bed). The short bed bracket I weld myself back together and just set it back up. No more problem switch back from long bed brackret to short bed bracket. (No long available!) You'll have to custom make this bracket. 

 

NOTE: the AirDog 165 pump head does still fit the short bed bracket and the AirDog 150 filter base but its tight to the floor pan. 

 

Been trouble free of gelling and freezing up for over 15 YEARS and well over 400k miles. No anti-gel products used. Still today!

 

The last FASS pump I sold to a local is mount just like that one above and his truck gelled up work right along side my truck in the same weather conditions and hauling hay together from New Meadows to John Day Creek to his cows. I was hire by the guy to haul hay for his cows. We both got fuel together and loaded hay together. Needless to say I had to tow him home till his fuel warmed up and weather warmed up it was only -30*F outside that day. To this day I serious hesitate before selling another FASS pump over an AirDog. When a AirDog 150 can run day after day in subzero temps without a problem.   But this goes to show how damage path and these pump will make or break them in cold temps. Since my AirDog 150 is NOT in the damage path of the tires I have ZERO problems. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Mopar1973Man

[LorenS]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

I serious hesitate before selling another FASS pump

Is that just due to the mounting bracket location, or other reasons?  I don't know why, but I thought you were about to become a FASS dealer.  Was it AirDog?
Since the Amsoil "All In One" is the same price or less than the Wal-Mart 2-stroke oil I just use it.  Or when out of town for months on end (thanks, COVID), I use the white PDS.  Granted, the 2-stroke has a fuel benefit (BTUs) that the anti-gels do not (or at least insignificant).  When I fill up in Minnesota or northern Iowa I don't need it for antigel since then know how to treat fuel.  Buying fuel in KC then traveling north I think is a poor idea.

[Mopar1973Man]

2 hours ago, LorenS said:

I don't know why, but I thought you were about to become a FASS dealer. 

 

So, I can handle warranties and such for all the FASS owners that are around me with issues. See more FASS pump issues than AirDog 100/150 (Raptor different story)... Right now that's on hold till I get other things out of the way. I'm trying to clear my plate so I can work on both my 2002 Dodge and my 2006 Dodge and get them both repaired. 

 

As for anti-gel topics. I just got a phone call from Russ my landlord of my other shop I rent. He was running out of fuel in his Cummins went out back got a some fuel from his red dye farm tank. Next day now the truck will not start. He's got a block mounted Raptor pump and it got zero fuel pressure. Now I helped him shove the truck in the shop and get heat around the fuel tank. I left my Vulcan Fuel Pressure test gauge there. Now I got to give it a hour or so and go back and check on his truck. Not to mention the fuel pump I just installed in a 1987 Chevy Van malfunctioned and quit. Got power to the pump but now got to warranty it back out.  Don't be like Russ and use your red dye farm fuel for your truck if the fuel is not winterized. 

[Scarecrow]

Yup, normal "winterized" fuel is between 60-70% #2 and the rest #1. Used to mix it ourselves at the pumps, but now winterized is all you can find, probably because it costs more.

 

Mark

 

[dripley]

My AD 165 is mounted on the inside of the frame rails. But I believe I could turn bracket and mount outside. Did not seem to make sense mount it outside. And IIRC I had to lower the bracket a little to put the 4g pump head on. Other than that if fit just like the old one.

[Joe_Pool]

I use FPPF Total Power (00343) year round at the rate of 1 ounce per 8 gallons of fuel ( 1 quart treats about 250 gallons of fuel).  No fuel issues on my 2002 Dodge Cummins or 2002 Chevy Duramax (both owned since new).  This gives antigel, lubricity increaser, cetane booster, water dispersant and injector cleaner all in one treatment.  I also use it in my Deutz (oil cooled diesel) powered Bobcat, no problems here either.

 

It costs me about $1.80 to treat 35 gallons of fuel or just over $ .05 per gallon.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Joe_Pool
To add information

[Scarecrow]

FPPF makes some good products. I use the Bio Diesel Winter Treatment due to the fact even in the winter Minnesota still dictates a 5% biodiesel blend. I have been able to start and run at -40 using this. About the only thing useful about biodiesel in the winter is it adds lubricity, otherwise it stats to gel at +35*.

 

Costs a little more $18 for a quart that treats 250 gal, works out to about $.07 per gal.