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smokeythedodge

nv5600 junk

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

Coming home from the gym last night, no trailer, no nothing, and btw I am completely stock so like 200 hp at the flywheel or less, and I heard the strangest sound a transmission could make when I was about to crest a hill, sounded like cats having a brawl in an alley or something, then it went clang, clatter, crunch and crash, now I have no forward or reverse gears and coasted to the shoulder... Mainshaft is broke I think, we pulled the drive shaft and yoke out of the back of the tranny, btw the seal is now definitely wallered out, and the output shaft will move up and down, side to side about 2 inches and can be pushed in about half an inch and out the same. Something aint right...... Fluid changed at 100k, 150k and 180k with pennzoil synchromesh that meets ms9224 spec, 5 quarts in it. What all do I need to do to put a 5 speed in the truck? I know I will need a clutch with 1 1/4 splines. What else? How different are the driveshaft lengths?? This is an 01 dually quad cab 2 wheel drive.

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Blueox01    0
Blueox01

The 5 Spd is made buy New Venture also 6 Spd is a heavier trans, call Blumenthal's in OKC PH# 405-236-4800/www.blumenthalmfg.com . I went through 3 NV5600,my first one went 388k before snapping the main shaft,it made no noise,just lost all gears, but i'm always towing weight. Finally swapped in a Fuller 8406 6 Spd 14" clutch Holds 840 lbs ft of nominal torque NV5600 later models hold 650 lbs ft of torque.Followed somewhat what another guy did in NM,not sure of his web site,just do a search for NV5600 swap on the internet(i'm sure someone has it on this site saved)

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

Cool, thanks for the info... I am VERY interested in putting an 8406 like you did. I found the guys site, but I am having some trouble coming up with a source for the SAE 2 flywheel/ engine adapter.... Any ideas???

Here are some pics for the curious. See if anybody can guess what caused the catasprophic failure. Hint. It is something simple, and lead to a very bad chain of events....

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Clearly the shift pivot ball, that threads into the bellhousing of the transmission, worked itself lose and on the way to completely becoming edgewise out, walloped all the threads to death in the hole This misalignment I am guessing is what caused the throwout bearing to fall apart (it is completely screwed if you could feel it and touch it) and caused the input shaft and pilot bearing in the flywheel to become wallored out and in turn all the misalignment caused something in my tranny to let go. I will be pulling the guts out of it tomorrow after class. SO I will definitely be spending some money, I would like to just get an eaton fuller or similar big truck tranny that can be top side serviced instead of end loader style.

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dorkweed    313
dorkweed

Not arguing here, just saying.................to get wallered out like that = neglect in my book. The NV5600 is darn near bullet proof. Heck, the sled pullers use these bad boys "stock" with the addition of a HD clutch and billet input shaft!!! And do hundreds of runs on top of it!!!!! There had to be some signs long before this............ for this to go "all at once" like that!!!! I feel for you, but I dunno??!!!:stuned::banghead:

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

Also, watch out for blumenthals..... I have dealt with them in the past with class 8 stuff, they will bend you over if you don't know what is going on. They tried to trick me the last time I ever went in there. Had a super 10 eaton out of a peterbilt, had some issue with the range shift, sent it there and I knew what it was, but I told the guy I didn't. Just said it broke, needs fixed. So when I went in there to find out from them exactly what the damage was going to be, they came out from the shop with a big box full of chewed-up gears and said they are going to have to put several new gears and blah blah in this thing. Well I knew the gears they showed me didn't come out of a super 10 so I called them on it and said I want to see my tranny right now. The guy said he would be right back he had to go find out where they put the tranny and blah blah the guy who works on them was gone for lunch, so I waited for a while then after I got sick of waiting and went out myself and found my tranny sitting on the bench, no chewed up gears in it at all like I thought. Anyway, I told the guy I wanted my tranny back on the pallet asap and in the back of my truck i'm going elsewhere. Rant over hahaha.

--- Update to the previous post...

Not arguing here, just saying.................to get wallered out like that = neglect in my book. The NV5600 is darn near bullet proof. Heck, the sled pullers use these bad boys "stock" with the addition of a HD clutch and billet input shaft!!! And do hundreds of runs on top of it!!!!! There had to be some signs long before this............ for this to go "all at once" like that!!!! I feel for you, but I dunno??!!!:stuned::banghead:

Sorry boss, no neglect here you can say there was all you want. This thing shifted like a hot knife through butter. I didn't feel anything wrong.

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Wild and Free    1,107
Wild and Free

If you are close to Oklahoma City or Tulsa, I highly reccomend Inland Truck Parts and Service I used to work at the Bismarck ND store for a few years in the full service truck shop side of it. This company can get you anything for it you would ever want to get be it a swap or reman tranny or reman your tranny or parts to do it yourself. I have seen many rigs that were stock literally melt the input gear off the input shaft and turn the input bearing into molten lava just from the torque that these cummins will put down, I feel it is more important for guys who pull heavy with a manual tranny to have a tranny temp gauge than the auto guys. When working at ITP we talked many Dodge guys into tranny temp gauges and they all came back thanking us profusely as they did not realize how hot they would get and how fast the temp drops by dropping 1 gear in heavy pulling situations.

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

If you are close to Oklahoma City or Tulsa, I highly reccomend Inland Truck Parts and Service I used to work at the Bismarck ND store for a few years in the full service truck shop side of it. This company can get you anything for it you would ever want to get be it a swap or reman tranny or reman your tranny or parts to do it yourself.

Awesome, I will look them up for sure!!! I am about an hour from Oklahoma City!

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Wild and Free    1,107
Wild and Free

Awesome, I will look them up for sure!!! I am about an hour from Oklahoma City!

Reread my post above yours if you pull heavy, I added to my original post.

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ISX    58
ISX

If you are close to Oklahoma City or Tulsa, I highly reccomend Inland Truck Parts and Service I used to work at the Bismarck ND store for a few years in the full service truck shop side of it. This company can get you anything for it you would ever want to get be it a swap or reman tranny or reman your tranny or parts to do it yourself. I have seen many rigs that were stock literally melt the input gear off the input shaft and turn the input bearing into molten lava just from the torque that these cummins will put down, I feel it is more important for guys who pull heavy with a manual tranny to have a tranny temp gauge than the auto guys. When working at ITP we talked many Dodge guys into tranny temp gauges and they all came back thanking us profusely as they did not realize how hot they would get and how fast the temp drops by dropping 1 gear in heavy pulling situations.

Where would you put the probe? Put it in one of the PTO cover holes? I guess you could even drill the cover. I'd love to watch the temps of that thing :hyper:

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

Reread my post above yours if you pull heavy, I added to my original post.

Cool that is great info man. I don't do too much, pretty close to GCWR though.... 32 ft dual tandem and about 400 square bales of hay..... Probably exceeding it more than I should more often than I should.....

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Wild and Free    1,107
Wild and Free

Where would you put the probe? Put it in one of the PTO cover holes? I guess you could even drill the cover. I'd love to watch the temps of that thing :hyper:

That is where we put it, drilled a hole and installed them in the cover, if they didn't want to spring for a fast cooler. The fast coolers Have a temp sensor port IIRC. We sold and installed lots of those along with the gauges also, the more capacity the better on these things. Pulling heavy in direct drive is the best, its when you are pulling in OD aka 6th gear is when they get hot fast.

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Blueox01    0
Blueox01

I'd get on the internet and search used medium/heavy duty salvage yards that's how i found my tranny/sae#2 adapter,bell housing,slave cyl. Also check E-Bay

Never had Blumenthals ever work on my NV5600 ,have just bought parts from them and know they are a New Venture Auth Reman. First NV5600 had ITP in Salina tore it apart,they did'nt have a Reman in their system they had to get from a Reman Facility in Portland,OR and tacked an extra $1000 on their cost to me.So i'd also keep an eye on ITP or any one you deal with.Can't remember the name of the place in Portland(thier Reman only lasted 188k)but they did buy 2 NV5600 cores from me for $750 a piece.

--- Update to the previous post...

Go to www.HeavyTruckParts.Net there are several SAE#2 Flywheel housing's for $300(Kadinger's Heavy Duty TruckS & Parts inc. 715-643-4212):hyper:

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Wild and Free    1,107
Wild and Free

Can't remember the name of the place in Portland(thier Reman only lasted 188k)

:shrug: And you think 188k miles is a bad thing?????????????:cookoo: 99.999% of people would be tickled to get that out of any tranny new or used.

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Blueox01    0
Blueox01

:shrug: And you think 188k miles is a bad thing?????????????:cookoo: 99.999% of people would be tickled to get that out of any tranny new or used.

Original went 388k snapped main shaft,the reman had the bearing in the rear case seize up,yea thought i'd get more miles on the Reman since i was babying it.And it went out in CA,had to give up my load,7 days lost revenue(motel,meals and booze & $4500) wish it would have lasted just 2800 more miles!:pray:

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

I'd get on the internet and search used medium/heavy duty salvage yards that's how i found my tranny/sae#2 adapter,bell housing,slave cyl. Also check E-Bay

Never had Blumenthals ever work on my NV5600 ,have just bought parts from them and know they are a New Venture Auth Reman. First NV5600 had ITP in Salina tore it apart,they did'nt have a Reman in their system they had to get from a Reman Facility in Portland,OR and tacked an extra $1000 on their cost to me.So i'd also keep an eye on ITP or any one you deal with.Can't remember the name of the place in Portland(thier Reman only lasted 188k)but they did buy 2 NV5600 cores from me for $750 a piece.

--- Update to the previous post...

Go to www.HeavyTruckParts.Net there are several SAE#2 Flywheel housing's for $300(Kadinger's Heavy Duty TruckS & Parts inc. 715-643-4212):hyper:

Thank you much!!! I SOOO want to do this. $750 bucks for this hunk, I hope so!!! I would give it up gladly for that, and pay 2500 or 3000 to put a midrange eaton behind this thing!

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Blueox01    0
Blueox01

:hyper:I did my conversion a little different as far as brackets etc. I could'nt get the dodge master cylinder to work so bought a new one for a class 8 volvo(made a adapter bracket for it also. I 've got pic's of brackets if you want them,as well as part #'s for the master cyl.,starter. I cut this shift lever off the 8406 shift tower and brazed the curved section of the NV5600 tower to it so i could use my original stick.

--- Update to the previous post...

Awesome. I will be doing this. Little confused about the clutch disengage mechanism he details.... Hopefully I can just find a freightliner fl70 fl 80 with an isb cummins and just scavenge everything from starter to clutch and actuator to the pedal bracket.

When you get the bell housing you'll see what he's showing, when you push in the clutch it physically pulls the the pressure plate back from the flywheel vs the throw-out bearing pushing on the fingers to draw the pressure plate back ,the throw-out bearing is part of the clutch assy. not separate.

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

:hyper:I did my conversion a little different as far as brackets etc. I could'nt get the dodge master cylinder to work so bought a new one for a class 8 volvo(made a adapter bracket for it also. I 've got pic's of brackets if you want them,as well as part #'s for the master cyl.,starter. I cut this shift lever off the 8406 shift tower and brazed the curved section of the NV5600 tower to it so i could use my original stick.

--- Update to the previous post...

When you get the bell housing you'll see what he's showing, when you push in the clutch it physically pulls the the pressure plate back from the flywheel vs the throw-out bearing pushing on the fingers to draw the pressure plate back ,the throw-out bearing is part of the clutch assy. not separate.

I would love to see anything you could dig up!! Pictures would rock! I am seriously going to do this, and detail it with pictures and step by step details for the average guy to be able to do.

--- Update to the previous post...

Also, one other concern I have is the driveline. The dodge has a splined, slip yoke as you know that slides into the back of the nv5600. I am wondering, i guess it would depend on which tranny you used, what you did about putting a new yoke on the dodge driveshaft?? And what kind exactly??

You used an FSO8406 correct? That would mean it is an overdrive tranny if I understand correctly?? So pretty close to the .73 or whatever of the nv5600?? I LOVE my rpms in 6th OD with the nv5600 because of my 3.55 rear. I want a eaton tranny that has a similar 6 th gear ratio. And is the FSO 8406 synchronized? I could live without them really, just something that would wear out I guess but it would be kinda nice to keep it easy to drive.

--- Update to the previous post...

OK. Think I have this sorted out for the most part....

Eaton Fuller Transmissions

FS= Fuller Synchronized

FSO=Fuller Synchronized Overdrive

FO=Fuller, Overdrive

17 models is all I think they made or make.......

F-6406A-ASW

FS-5106A

FS-5306A

FS-5406A

FSB-5406B

FS-6206A

FS-6306A

FS-6406A

FSB-6406B

FO-6406A-ASX

FO-8406A-ASX

FO-6406A-ASW

FSO-6406A

FSO-8406A

FS-7206A

FS-8206A

FS-8306A

All of these can be outfitted with either SAE 1, 2, or 3 clutch housings. LARGE TO SMALL (I think) You can get a SAE 1 or SAE 2 Engine Adapter which is made by Cummins for this motor which is available on many different applications like in Freightliner trucks, busses, and Ford f650 750, and it will mate up to the SAE 1 or SAE 2 bell housing that bolts onto the Eaton Fuller tranny. Correct me if I am wrong....

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Blueox01    0
Blueox01

:thumb1:I'll have to find the pics i took of the brackets, you want the FSO 8406A and yes you have the FSO correct the 840 is the nominal torque 6 # of gears. You need the SAE #2 thats a tight fit,the web site i gave you had a few on it(Cummins ISB/5.9)the #2 Bell housing will mate up, if you look close they have Trans mounting tabs(use a sawsall and cut them off).I'm sure you can order from Cummins or Freightliner,would be very costly,starter access needs to be RIGHT SIDE. On the road now when i get home i'll look up some part #'s. The driveshaft needs lengthened/and larger u-joint in front, the slip/spline in the center is for travel of rear axle.Solid from Trans to Center mount. Go to www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html both the NV5600 and Eaton Fuller FSO 8406A are listed showing ratio's/rpm's/speed/tire size's to compare side by side.

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

:thumb1:I'll have to find the pics i took of the brackets, you want the FSO 8406A and yes you have the FSO correct the 840 is the nominal torque 6 # of gears. You need the SAE #2 thats a tight fit,the web site i gave you had a few on it(Cummins ISB/5.9)the #2 Bell housing will mate up, if you look close they have Trans mounting tabs(use a sawsall and cut them off).I'm sure you can order from Cummins or Freightliner,would be very costly,starter access needs to be RIGHT SIDE. On the road now when i get home i'll look up some part #'s. The driveshaft needs lengthened/and larger u-joint in front, the slip/spline in the center is for travel of rear axle.Solid from Trans to Center mount. Go to www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html both the NV5600 and Eaton Fuller FSO 8406A are listed showing ratio's/rpm's/speed/tire size's to compare side by side.

Seems like the FSO 8406A is an expensive beast! I read elsewhere that it is possible to convert an FS XXXX to an Overdrive somehow, and also possible to convert an FO to an FSO. Do you have any information on this? I can get my hands on an older FS or FO transmission cheaper than I can get a FSO 6406 or 8406.... Thanks for the info!!! :thumbup2:

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Blueox01    0
Blueox01

Seems like the FSO 8406A is an expensive beast! I read elsewhere that it is possible to convert an FS XXXX to an Overdrive somehow, and also possible to convert an FO to an FSO. Do you have any information on this? I can get my hands on an older FS or FO transmission cheaper than I can get a FSO 6406 or 8406.... Thanks for the info!!! :thumbup2:

What have you found them for? I paid $1500 for mine

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

Thats a good buy! Well I went to a heavy duty truck junkyard by my house, they wanted 4500 for a FSO 8406 used... 3800 for a 6406 FSO Only had a couple...

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smokeythedodge    0
smokeythedodge

Really haven't had any luck finding a eaton with overdrive around here. Been looking into rebuilding the nv5600 myself, but after doing some research, it aint happening. Found a list of the little press adapters and stuff someone on another forum put together,

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Found a few of the tools for sale online, 5 tools I could find added up to over 1,000 bucks. Plus I don't have a 100 ton press, apparently the 50 ton I have wont do the job.... So I am definitely going to have to find a used nv5600 probably, an eaton would be nice but they are rare.

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