Truck randomly dies. Please help, pulling my hair out, and loosing sleep!

[wh82]

Got the Timbo APPS installed (also removed the AC filter (Capacitor) from the line to the PCM) Still have a brand new alternator on it, re-conditioned all the battery connections for the 5th time on this truck (need new cables) and guess what... Edge still shows the APPS jumping around 0% 4% 1% 8% 0% *GRRR* ok, I've had this since 2014 and yeah, killed a trans but learned to live with it. 

 

-Removed the edge here for further testing as we know the APPS is acting up, bye bye my precious guages...

 

Truck is as stock as it can be (still have my version of the big-3 upgrade in place, verified no ground loop induced noise) and the truck is still randomly choking and turning off the lift pump and firing right back up while cruising down the road =(

 

Anybody want to buy a truck? I'm about done with this one.

[Dieselfuture]

If apps is acting up at idle it's ether not adjusted right or ecm is having issues, at idle apps have no say ecm is in charge. Go through apps voltage setting procedures from timbo.

[wh82]

On 7/25/2021 at 4:11 PM, Dieselfuture said:

Go through apps voltage setting procedures from timbo.

😕 Did that when I installed the sensor...

[dripley]

I went back did a little rereading. My truck is going something very similar. It has cut off while idling and momentarily cut off while under throttle for a split second. It always restarted and never set a code. Then about 2 weeks ago on the way to work it shut and did not restart. I managed to get into a parking lot and that when I noticed the lift pump was working. Played some and swapped the lift pump relay with another and it the pump started running and the trucked fired right off. Took of and made it a half and she shut down again and would not restart, fuel pump dead also. Just played around with it and the pump starting working so tried make back to the house and it shut down again. This time it would not restart and I had to get a tow home. While messing with it at the house I finally noticed the WTS light was not illuminating. I also had a 1694 code. Did a lot head scratching since the electronics is far from my strong suit. I whim I ran the test on the instrument cluster since it is in middle of both ECM and PCM. After that the WTS illuminated. I have no idea why that happened. I took for test spin and sure it shut down again with not WTS light. Ran the cluster test again and the WTS illuminated. The next few days I idled the the truck for several hours, made a couple 10 mile round trips and it flawlessly. Then the day I decide to take it work it shut down after 20 seconds but restarted and the WTS was illuminating. I took off up the road and glitched 3 times under throttle be immediately came back to life.  So quick I never had a chance to lift the throttle. I figured screw I am going to work and it has not done it again since the first 2 or 3 miles last Monday.

 

Now mine never had any code other that the 1694, no APPS codes. So if yours shuts down again with no WTS light run the cluster test and see if it comes back. I have no idea as to why that worked on mine. Coincidence maybe, but if works on yours there is something to it. I wrote this up in a thread titled Dead Truck in this same section. 

[Dieselfuture]

2 hours ago, wh82 said:

😕 Did that when I installed the sensor...

On rare occasion I heard that timbo could be bad new, even though it's simple. Not saying it is but maybe. If you had this issues before changing it and now, chances are ecm acting up. Not saying it's bad ether could be ground issues.

[Mopar1973Man]

Timbos APPS uses mechanical means to set the IVS switches. Then the rest is rheostat that controls throttle. So the rheostat part you can watch with a live data tool and the IVS is a bit tough but you should get a normal idle at 800 RPM if the IVS is working right. If not it could possibly idle higher above 800 RPM if not.

[dripley]

11 hours ago, Dieselfuture said:

On rare occasion I heard that timbo could be bad new, even though it's simple. Not saying it is but maybe. If you had this issues before changing it and now, chances are ecm acting up. Not saying it's bad ether could be ground issues.

I am counting on mine not being the ECM. But you never know. I will keep digging for grounds and and checking connectors.

[wh82]

4 hours ago, dripley said:

I am counting on mine not being the ECM. But you never know. I will keep digging for grounds and and checking connectors.

I'm with you, I hope it's not the ECM... Electronics are my thing but it's hard without access to FULL schematics, FULL software code and of course some nice scan tools. I just don't have any of that and am waiting on a friend who has the actual dodge scanners to have time for me. my WTS light always has worked through this... but the ECM cutting the lift pump randomly and then the truck surging back up and running without lift pressure at least kind of tells me the VP44 is strong still.. (not for long at this rate) ****, it drove my truck for at least 3 months when my original pump was dead when I purchased the truck and didn't know it prior to getting gauges back in the day... But now, keep cutting lift pressure and brand new strong injectors... that's when this all started.. 

5 hours ago, dripley said:

I am counting on mine not being the ECM. But you never know. I will keep digging for grounds and and checking connectors.

I just took a look at your thread, very similar problems, completely overlooked it in my panic to get help. :| very odd, heat starts, both have similar issues... maybe the ECMs are melllllting, MELLLLLLTIINGGG... 

[Great work!]

Open the connectors near center of fire wall by vacuum  tee. then clean and reconnect a few times to wipe clean.

[wh82]

13 minutes ago, Great work! said:

Open the connectors near center of fire wall by vacuum  tee. then clean and reconnect a few times to wipe clean.

Thanks for the suggestion. That is one thing I noticed right after my injector swap is I had bumped one of those loose. I cleaned both of those with contact cleaner then blew them out with air... still having issues. I'm really curious about dripley's "cluster test" but it looks like that requires a scan tool. I too have seen CCD frequently on my overhead console. :| I really think this truck just wants to be retired :D

[Great work!]

Ok but those are normally very solid connectors and should never bump loose. You might take another look at the latches on them. After a certain year you can test the cluster by holding the trip button for along time or hold while turning key on. Can't remember. Also oil pressure sensor is very delicate and maybe intermittent 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Great work!
Forgot

[wh82]

so, uh... yeah, I *THINK* found my issue and uh... its embarrassing seeing as how I am one of the people preaching the importance of grounds... one of my hard to reach bolts had come loose and me being in some strange health states lately had to actually force myself to find the end of that specific wire... just drove it hard for a good hour, so far no hiccups, so I'm going to assume I found it. Also, no more APPS jumping (pretty sure the old one was still questionable) but the new Timbo is a solid 0% occasionally hitting 1% but not all over the board... I'm going to do one final calibration now that i fixed the ground as the APPS can only hit 95% full pedal right now.

 

How was that bolt loose and how was one of the ground cables completely disconnected?

ಠಿ_ಠ

[dripley]

2 hours ago, wh82 said:

so, uh... yeah, I *THINK* found my issue and uh... its embarrassing seeing as how I am one of the people preaching the importance of grounds... one of my hard to reach bolts had come loose and me being in some strange health states lately had to actually force myself to find the end of that specific wire... just drove it hard for a good hour, so far no hiccups, so I'm going to assume I found it. Also, no more APPS jumping (pretty sure the old one was still questionable) but the new Timbo is a solid 0% occasionally hitting 1% but not all over the board... I'm going to do one final calibration now that i fixed the ground as the APPS can only hit 95% full pedal right now.

 

How was that bolt loose and how was one of the ground cables completely disconnected?

ಠಿ_ಠ

What bolt did you over look? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

I did my cluster test by holding the trip button down then turning the key to on. Chec will appear in the odo and it runs a self diagnostic. When I did mine the WTS came on both times after the test was over. I would think your 01 would do the same trick. But you never know. You might try it when your lift pump shuts down and see what happens. You might just try it to see if it works your 01. The 2nd gen 24v's seem to have a lot differences thru there short span.

[wh82]

1 hour ago, dripley said:

What bolt did you over look? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

I did my cluster test by holding the trip button down then turning the key to on. Chec will appear in the odo and it runs a self diagnostic. When I did mine the WTS came on both times after the test was over. I would think your 01 would do the same trick. But you never know. You might try it when your lift pump shuts down and see what happens. You might just try it to see if it works your 01. The 2nd gen 24v's seem to have a lot differences thru there short span.

So... for those that follow the 'W-T' mod, that one... mines a bit different as I did mine years before his write-up but the same, all those wires that used to merge into the single 8 guage flowing across the top of the alternator were merged into a connection to a bolt that is more direct to the driver battery. That happens to be the one that has the ECM ground and I believe the VP ground and a couple others in it... the loose ring terminal was jittering around from the vibration.

[SilverMoose]

14 hours ago, wh82 said:

so, uh... yeah, I *THINK* found my issue and uh... its embarrassing seeing as how I am one of the people preaching the importance of grounds... one of my hard to reach bolts had come loose and me being in some strange health states lately had to actually force myself to find the end of that specific wire... just drove it hard for a good hour, so far no hiccups, so I'm going to assume I found it. Also, no more APPS jumping (pretty sure the old one was still questionable) but the new Timbo is a solid 0% occasionally hitting 1% but not all over the board... I'm going to do one final calibration now that i fixed the ground as the APPS can only hit 95% full pedal right now.

 

How was that bolt loose and how was one of the ground cables completely disconnected?

ಠಿ_ಠ

At least it was an easy fix and I'm glad you found it before spending a fortune. 

 

I can understand what you have been Through.  The same thing happened to me with an old OMC outboard.  It ran like crap and I couldn't figure it out. Did all sorts maintenance to it.  Then one evening as it was getting dark and I started it up.  The first thing I noticed was the main ground arcing. Tightened it up and it ran great.

 

Later

D

[JAG1]

Good job finding it 

[wh82]

2 hours ago, SilverMoose said:

At least it was an easy fix and I'm glad you found it before spending a fortune. 

 

fortunes are relative :D Got a new $250 alternator and a new APPS out of the deal, and all I wanted was injectors cause the truck ran like poo lol.. I guess the alternator can go back, I was looking at an upgraded at some point, but that requires new charge leads as well to support a 270AMP... I'm being told, the truck runs, don't touch it... which is sensible, but yeah

[Mopar1973Man]

Upgraded alternator not needed. Just need to do the W-T ground wire mod to make things right with AC noise. 

[wh82]

4 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Upgraded alternator not needed. Just need to do the W-T ground wire mod to make things right with AC noise. 

I have lights, big stereo, 2 way radios and when pulling, 2 extra batteries... Really should get myself that 270Amp I've been putting off. 180 doesn't seem like an upgrade but my original Bosch also wasn't putting off any more noise than the replacement so may take the duralast crap back and throw that bosch back in.

 

My ground mod that I did years ago killed the minor AC noise, also did bigger grounds "Big 3" minus the bigger alternator lead.

[Mopar1973Man]

I've got lights too but don't even draw a full 10A for all of the lights. Look toward energy efficiency. Still in all a massive 270A alternator is going to draw down more horsepower. I'd rather reduce loads than adding bigger alternator.