New Injector knock/ping, 3rd set!

[YeaImDylan]

15 hours ago, Silverwolf2691 said:

Yes it does..

 

What happened when you pulled cruise timing out? More power? smoother power?

 

Tbh the 0 cruise was actually for @YeaImDylan, but if it helps you figure out the timing for your truck then thats good

I didn't realize the cruise timing comment was for me my bad lol. Which parameter should I be setting to 0?

I'm assuming it's one of these (will also put what I have currently):

Max load Timing Offset: 1

Low PSI Timing Reduct: 2

Timing Reduct Scaling: 100

Light Throttle Timing Adv: 0

Light throttle Load limit (percent): 35

[Mopar1973Man]

13 minutes ago, YeaImDylan said:

Light Throttle Timing Adv: 0

Light throttle Load limit (percent): 35

Currently your cruise timing is cancelled being your adding ZERO degrees.

[YeaImDylan]

27 minutes ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Currently your cruise timing is cancelled being your adding ZERO degrees.

Hmm okay. Yeah with this current tune I'm still getting a miss at idle when holding steady at certain RPM's. MoparMan, not sure if you've seen my other replies regarding engine load at idle and what not but I'm thinking I may need to replace injectors? Or maybe get a SO VP44 pump?

[YeaImDylan]

Think I just found my problem.. there is diesel on one of the injector lines going into the VP, that nut is wet. Hard one to get to, it’s the one closest to the block. Gonna go get a shorty 3/4in wrench and see if I can get it tighter.

[Stanley]

Well here's the new injectors. Got a lope to it, clears up sometimes but barely touch the throttle and back at it. Really really really need to figure out this timing crap, it's gonna drive me bonkers!

 

 7x15's Lope

[YeaImDylan]

12 hours ago, Stanley said:

Well here's the new injectors. Got a lope to it, clears up sometimes but barely touch the throttle and back at it. Really really really need to figure out this timing crap, it's gonna drive me bonkers!

 

 7x15's Lope

Those are a size up for injector tubes right? Could that cause an issue? I also saw a post on the Facebook cummins forum group regarding care for those and I guess they’re easy to damage and cave the hole in just a tiny bit too cause issues. Just a thought, I’m no where near as experienced as others with these trucks lol

[Stanley]

@YeaImDylan yes I have the .093 lines and tubes, they are required for the df pump. Also required size injectors for the bigger pump, the 7x15 and 6x18 arepretty close to the same. 

You have to be pretty careful with ends of lines and tubes, they knick easy and can get deformed.

Here at John deere we don't re use lines or tubes just cause of deformation and just cause it's required. Not saying it's right/wrong or you should do it but I personally I have reused mine on this one and many before multiple times, just gotta be careful.

[Mopar1973Man]

22 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

Yeah with this current tune I'm still getting a miss at idle when holding steady at certain RPM's

Miss at idle is going to lean towards injectors. Quadzilla is no longer in control below 1,200 RPM. Idling is controlled by the ECM.

[YeaImDylan]

5 hours ago, Mopar1973Man said:

Miss at idle is going to lean towards injectors. Quadzilla is no longer in control below 1,200 RPM. Idling is controlled by the ECM.

Another issue I have is if I’m sitting at about 1800-1900 rpm (neutral, driving, etc) my fuel pressure creeps up to like 17psi and then drops down to 12/13 and does it again. If I hold it there in neutral it sounds like a miss at that rpm but it may be missing at any. Still get the weird fuel readings and a new air dog didn’t solve the problem with that.

[Mopar1973Man]

18 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

If I hold it there in neutral it sounds like a miss at that rpm but it may be missing at any.

 

Not valid. Turn off the Quadzilla when free revving. Quadzilla is not design for free revving and the timing is way off so it could cause popping or missing.

18 hours ago, YeaImDylan said:

my fuel pressure creeps up to like 17psi and then drops down to 12/13 and does it again.

Adjustable fuel pressure or spring and check ball style? Adjustable has issues with stable pressures. You might have to run the adjustment way out and back in this help with @JAG1 pressure issues on his truck a few years back.

 

Also where is your pressure sensor at? If its hooked up to the fuel supply directly you could be damaging the sensor with water hammer pulses. Any electric or mechanical gauge should be hook up like...

 

Tap point -> needle valve/snubber -> At least 5 feet of 1/8" tubing -> Fuel pressure sensor

 

This allows the pulses to fade in distance of travel, it protects the fuel pressure sensor from damage and gives better accuracy of readings.

[JAG1]

Both trucks with new Raptor 150's had to run the regulators up and down several times to get them straight. Now I think they are very good regulators. Always steady.

 

One is approaching 60,000 miles now and never a cough or headache. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by JAG1

[Stanley]

Test....

 

Will not let me post or upload

[Stanley]

Ok... I held off long enough. Trying to figure out everything an I can't figure it out. 

4th set of injectors now at (7×15's) Stock setup on quad (zero) truck doesn't smoke at all for the most part. Biggest injectors for vp44 and no smoke? Even lugging it? 

Truck also gets really hot egts really fast, that's just slowly getting up to 60mph I can see 1000* to 1200* no problem. Granted I can contribute that to big injectors but along with no smoke. I also have that ting/ping/knock again. 


Now I'm thinking worst case! Bent Valve, piston slap, you name it. But when where and how? Everything started after first injector swap....


Could a bad vp44 cause a ting or ping at injector? Cause them to go out? I'm seriously thinking about buying another vp44 again due to unknowns with it and obvious situation here. 


Also noticed today that I have pressure and smoky vapor coming from fuel fill... bad cap? Drove down the back road and back with cap off and it was still there...


I have attached videos of the ping/ting and fuel vapor. 

Anyone wanna come down and help me figure this out? I'm at a total loss currently. This is getting old, I just wanna drive the dang thing...


Please help!!

 

 

 

 

tank-vent-video

 

 

cummins-noise-video

cummins-noise-video-1

[Great work!]

Are you completely 100% sure that there is no crud around the injector nozzles or in the injector holes? You might want to clean out the bore and holes with some small bore brushes and pipe cleaners and brake clean. Make sure there are no extra copper washers in there. Try using new washers too. Could be injectors are not sealing against the head or the nozzles are not deep enough or some crud is messing with the spray pattern in the head or pistons

Run it with intake horn removed and listen closely you will hear any leaking intake valves it will have an inconsistent tone. Finally just run it like you are mad at it that's what Cummins are made for.

[Stanley]

@Great work!  I usually look in each bore to check for washers and gunk then a little spritz of brake clean before installing injectors. But I will check again for sure. 

I thought about driving mad alot of times lol. Then I thought well if I can find what it is before I blow a hole in the block I'd be money ahead. 

I been reading some stuff here and there on other forums some stuff @Mopar1973Man posted back in 2014, on the tank it could be cracked head or leaking injector seal or plugged vent or something. 

 

I hope and don't think it's a head issue cause it just started with the new injectors but ? 

 

Needless to say I'm scared at this point. Don't know really which way to go....

 

My new bore scope camera from snap on, the end is to big to get down into bore to inspect pistons... 🤬 

I'd like to do so...

Got a compression test adapter ordered so I'll run a test when it gets here.

 

I hope the audio in the videos is good enough to differentiate noise from motor. If not I can do different ones or I have a few audio apps I can try. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Stanley

[Silverwolf2691]

I don't hear a knock or ping personally, if I'm honest it sounds like my truck when its cold.. i thought it was just the timing of the engine being cold.. could be that depending on when the video was taken.. 

 

Also remember you have a cam, probably a Hamilton 188/220. It flows quite a bit of air, same with the turbo. Only caveat is the lugging.. that puzzles me.. 

 

Same with the fuel tank smoke.. does it smell like fuel only or something else?

 

How warm is the fuel vs whats outside?

 

Was the video taken ice cold or after a long time driving?

 

Just for shiggles and gits, are you making forbidden chocolate milkshake or do you have more oil than you put in? Fingers crossed for neither of those, both are worst case scenario..

Edited November 23, 2021 by Silverwolf2691

[Stanley]

Temps yesterday were maybe 50*-60*

Didn't drive the truck before hand, it was just idling maybe some revs here or there just while recording videos.

 

I can't really smell anything anymore thanks to covid crap, but what I could gather it smelled like just diesel vapor, wife didn't notice it being different but idk if she knows what smells are what when it comes to automotive haha. 

 

Yea , NO smoke lugging and the egts through the roof just normal driving.

 

It's hard with noises being recorded for diag purposes. There is a ping/ting in there definitely noticeable while driving just hard to record it? Maybe I'll try some different things for better audio. 

[Silverwolf2691]

Sheesh i think you were warmer than i was yesterday in the northeast.

 

I cant find anything definitive on the dragon flow or lightning 2 (scheids version of an equivalent high-performance vp44) adding timing. Hot rod vp44s however all add timing..

 

Might be worth a shot.. @dieselautopower, is there anything you can tell us about timing with these pumps? Proprietary info im sure for specifics but any info is welcome.. 

 

 

[Stanley]

I put the bigger 7x15's in thinking that the pump was just blowing out the smaller 6x13's being it was the 3rd set of them, unlikely it was a injector failure 3 times but can't rule it out. Now since this mess idk... 

 

Why am I not having smoke with one of the biggest injector made for a vp44? 

 

I'm still not completely convinced it's a dragonflow but I have to think it is to keep my sanity! 

 

@dieselautopower I haven't sent back the 2 sets of "cores" yet. I was wanting to see if it happen to be something else and re-try those 6x13's. All else fails and new pump is needed a sovp would still work with those 6x13's according to Mitchell. So I could do that. I'm sorry this is such a mess, I really appreciate you guys working with me and Mitchell being so understanding and helpful! 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Stanley

[Great work!]

The ECM and pump exchange timing information. Desired vs actual and error. It takes a lot of error over a certain length of time for the ECM to fire off a DTC code. When ever there is a timing error over a certain amount the ECM will limit fuel until the Actual timing is reasonable. Same with boost oil pressure Engine temperature etc. The ECM backs off to prevent damage. Something could be border line or intermittent to cause de fueling but not throw a code. Does the quad ever report full fuel or 100% load?