Dyna beads

[wil440]

I've had the Toyo tyres on my truck now for about 2 years and within the last 3 months or so I noticed an out of balance wobble starting to get worse there was several speeds where it was worse and the tyres were wearing very odd like the front edge of all threads wearing off.

 

When I had the tyres fitted the guy told me the rims or tyres were way out of balance and that he had to use a lot of weight to even get close and to be fair the truck was never 100% and had a slight wobble over 60mph that settled out about 65mph.

It was getting worse so I decided to try beads Dyna beads to give them a name, called the company here in the UK that I presume imports them from the USA ( I think)  guy was very helpful and honest and he told me maybe they won't fix the balance problem I have because of the amount of weight my rims have on them.

The guy advises me to try 5oz in each through the valve first, an 8oz pack per wheel is recommended for my rim and tyre size but due to already having weights on the rims he said to go low to start.

So each wheel one at a time on the jack, valve core removed and valve at the bottom, the kit came with a small bottle and a tube that fits over the valve stem, the beads are small enough to flow through the valve, all four got 5.1oz actually.

It has made a huge difference and now there is just one patch at 51mph where there is a very slight feeling that it just might wobble a little but this has gone at 54mph.

Going to speak to the guy Colin and see what he thinks as to whether I put the other 2.9oz in each tyre and keep the weights or take the weights off.

 

I'm about due to rotate anyway so might just see what it's like when I go back to front, the deal with swapping to another corner is you hit the tyre with a hammer as this dislodges the static stick that keeps the beads stuck to the inside of the tyre in the correct area as they need to relearn and stick differently depending on disc/drum weight and balance so the wheel is always dynamically balanced for the corner it's fitted to and if any do not stick when stopped they are in the right place before a wobble speed is reached

 

[Me78569]

they worked well for me as well

[Mopar1973Man]

Another solution is air rifle BB's. Just dismount the wheel from the truck pull the valve core let the air out break the bead on one side the add the same amount of weight as the dyna beads get the same results. I've got two bottles in my shop for this purpose eventually I'll do it.

[W-T]

Hey @wil440excellent procedure and I too have been using Dyna Beads for 17 years with outstanding results. The company who produce the mini ceramic beads is on the east coast of the US and the composition of the ceramic material is formulated to be neutral in regard to static charge build up in order to negate clumping of the material.

Dyna Bead's web site is comprehensive in specific application as to what size tire and rim combination your working with.

 

My background in electronic communication evolved into Space Communications and I became affiliated with some very interesting individuals in NASA and AMSAT where I learned some fascinating aspects regarding the Space Shuttle.

 

Specifically on "landing" when returning from a space mission the aspect of "touch-down" where the large landing gear and multi-tire arrangement had to go from ZERO to 240+ MPH in a fractional amount of time. The engineering staff at NASA being who they are, researched the aspects of centrifuge-dynamics to compensate the huge problem of bringing that many tires within the landing gear structure to "balance" at the instantaneous moment of "touch-down"! Needless to say, the entire Space Shuttle platform is quite expensive and to have a "shimmy" in this scenario would be catastrophic considering the massive dynamic weight in play at these runway speeds. Hence, the Space Shuttle was balanced with Dyna Beads.

 

Having gleaned this knowledge from my heady acquaintances, this influenced my pursuit of excellence in regard to my CTD's road manners with larger tires/rims at highway speeds. Also, considering the cost of Toyo's in the 37" range being $500 each, I wished to promote longevity and provide balance at each tire rotation interval and avoid the application of external "ugly weights" on my expensive jewelry (10x20 rims) each time I rotated. The wear and tear of such a procedure eventually leads to cosmetic damage and I want no part of that.

 

The application of the beads during a new tire installation is simple because the Dyna Beads are packaged in a sacrificial bag where you merely toss the bag into the tire prior to mounting. If tires are mounted, you can apply the beads through the tire-stem after removing the Schrader-valve with care and time. I used a vibrating etch-tool to "wiggle" the beads from the application bottle with precision conical tip into the valve-stem. I do like the special Schrader-valves provided by Dyna Bead (during purchase) that have the mini-screen attached at the inner portion of the valve. It prevents the little ceramic-beads from blowing back through the valve during an "air-down" procedure and prevents the valve seat from being held open by "mini-balls".

 

My experiment of having my 37's on 10x20's being balanced with conventional (temporary) adhesive-stick weights on all for corners, I took a highway run on a very level and obscure highway here in Northern CA. The time was 10am and the temperature was 90 F (34 C) I maintained a speed of 80 MPH for a period of 12 minutes uninterrupted. I pulled over and immediately shot the tires with a CEM FDA-Cleared Non-contact Infrared Thermometer and recorded my findings.

 

Drove home to my garage and stripped away the adhesive weights (paid for the previous day) and applied the recommended 10 ounces on all four corners. The very next morning I drove to my designated test-run highway, same conditions, same ambient temperature, same wind conditions and same elapsed time of run...at the end of the test run I was very surprised to see a temperature decrease of 4 degrees Celsius! This would account for the precision balance provided in the overall dynamic balance being distributed and eliminating the "slight squirm" or oscillation of imperfect dynamic balance. The "feel" was just barely notable between the before and after re-balance procedure however; having a programmer (Smarty SO-3) and de-fueling once you reach 100 MPH doesn't occur I've found this 7000 LB truck is as smooth as a Corvette at 115 MPH where she runs out of breath. Yeah, I know it's stupid but, heck I'm pleased to have Betty be a graceful lady at ludicrous speeds... considering these 37's on 10x20's weigh in at 140 Lbs on the corners it's a crap load of spinning mass!

 

Wil...I highly suggest removing the static Fred Flintstone weights and applying the suggested amount of Dyna Beads to your "tyres-rim" assembly and allow the even distribution method to work for you. I know the humidity or wet conditions of your environment can be challenging when applying this method of balance or perhaps finding a dry nitrogen application to fill your tires (tyres...I like that) if "clumping" is a notable issue for you.

 

I do know when I first started using Dyna Beads it was approximately $8 dollars a corner and I'll assume it has increased slightly but, for the performance aspect and less stress to my cosmetic desires the Dyna Beads method is superior in my experience. The wear factor for mileage on these Toyo's with excellent balance characteristics has been extremely satisfying. Besides, the look of nice rims and NO ugly weights is bitchen!  

 

Cheers,

W-T       

 

             

 

 

           

 

   

[wil440]

23 minutes ago, W-T said:

Wil...I highly suggest removing the static Fred Flintstone weights and applying the suggested amount of Dyna Beads to your "tyres-rim" assembly and allow the even distribution method to work for you. I know the humidity or wet conditions of your environment can be challenging when applying this method of balance or perhaps finding a dry nitrogen application to fill your tires (tyres...I like that) if "clumping" is a notable issue for you.

 

I do know when I first started using Dyna Beads it was approximately $8 dollars a corner and I'll assume it has increased slightly but, for the performance aspect and less stress to my cosmetic desires the Dyna Beads method is superior in my experience. The wear factor for mileage on these Toyo's with excellent balance characteristics has been extremely satisfying. Besides, the look of nice rims and NO ugly weights is bitchen!  

I think you are right regarding the stick on weights.... pull them off and put the full 8oz in, we're in the middle of summer here so not wet or humid really, they flowed in through the valve no problem, I think I'm going to rotate the tyres tomorrow then check what it is like, then add the 8oz with no weights.

As for cost as usual here they are expensive, £73 including delivery for 4 8oz packs plus the through valve applicator which is a small plastic bottle and a short length of plastic pipe

 

And as ever @W-T an informative read

[Doubletrouble]

 I have not used the dyna beads in a truck tire yet but I have run them in my motorcycle tires for the past 8 years without trouble.

[Tractorman]

Just recently (in March) I installed a Centramatic Wheel balance Kit (for 4 wheels) on my truck.  Same idea, just a different product.  The photo below gives you an idea of how they are mounted and how they work.  Six ounces of ceramic beads are contained in synthetic oil in in the outer ring.  The manufacturer states that the beads begin to distribute themselves at road speeds above 30 mph.

 

I tried this product for a reason.  Last summer I purchased four new Blizzak tires for my truck.  I had them mounted and balanced at a local tire place.  Afterward, I drove about five miles on the freeway on the way home - the ride was smooth.  The last half mile to my house is a gravel road.  I checked the tires when I arrived home and noticed the tread was full of rocks.  When I drove the truck the next day, I observed that only about half of the rocks were shed from the tread.  Of course, the rocks affected tire balance.  I could feel the tire vibration at different speeds, but especially at about 68-70 mph.  Bummer, because I like the tires.

 

Anyway, I drove the truck a couple of months that way while pondering what to do about it.  I settled on the Centramatics.  I liked the idea that the ceramic beads are contained in a clean environment immersed in synthetic oil so they would be effective in cold climates as well.  It was a $220 investment, but I am happy because they work!.  Since the quantity of rocks stuck in the tread is everchanging, the continuous dynamic balancing takes care of the vibration.    

 

I have not tried removing the weights at this time, but I may do that at some point.  I would be nice not to have to balance tires on a regular schedule.  

 

W-T, I enjoyed your post.

 

- John

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Tractorman
posted photo twice

[Max Tune]

W-T, you are a fascinating man.

[wil440]

Well after doing 350 miles yesterday mainly motorway (highway to you guys) I can say the wobble hasn't gone, it's different but still there to the point of shaking the panels off of the doors.

62 MPH was the best where as before I put the beads in 62 was the worst

 

Plan now is in several stages so I will know for sure which fixes the problem

 

Today.... rotated the wheels front to back, kept them on the same side, front brake pads were 1/2 worn so seeing as I have close to a 100 sets I fired a set in, rear shoes were fine but I have a slightly leaking wheel cylinder on the drivers side and a slightly leaking hub seal on the passenger side, rockauto here I come, been for a quick run and can't feel a wobble but I wasn't on a motorway, going to take it on the M1 tomorrow between my 2 closest junctions

 

If rotating wheels/tyres cure it  then I'm going to pull all weights off of the front rims and test again

 

If that doesn't cure it I'm going to add beads up to the 8oz recommended and if that doesn't fix it I'm going to add 1oz at a time to the fronts till I have no more beads left

 

And if that doesn't fix it I'll change the front shocks

 

This is beginning to really #### me off now the tyres that were on the front have worn a pattern I haven't seen in 44 years of working on vehicles, the rear edge of some of the tread lugs are worn lower than the fronts... same across both front tyres see picture

Front shocks appear to be ok and are not leaking and the front does not bounce

[Max Tune]

If you jack up the rear and put it on stands, better if you have a lift, you can put it in gear and watch face of the tire at the "horizon" if that makes sense to see if you see any up down movement. You may have a tire that has a slight belt damage causing a bit of a bulge. Use the e-brake to slow the rotation down so you can easily see any up/down deflection. With a lift you can use 4 wheel drive to check all four without having to swap front to rear to check all 4 tires.

 

[wil440]

The tyres were on the front combined with a very pronounced wobble at certain speeds,  funny thing was at a wobble speed it would just disappear then come back, this was on cruise control with no change in speed and no change in road conditions..... both fronts worn the same and they weren't wearing like that when first fitted, probably done 10k before they started to wear like this

 

The darker patches on the pictures are the worn rear edges..... very difficult to see on a picture

The pattern is around the whole of both tyres, I counted lugs on the inside and if I pick a very worn tread lug the next really worn one was 8 away, next one was 6 away, both these 2 does not have a worn lug next to it further into the tread but 1 lug out backwards, next lug further in is one lug forwards, outer lug is again one lug backwards.

 

I don't think it's shock absorbers as it is across the whole circumference of the tyre  but what's got me is 4 lugs side by side across the tyre are not worn the same

[Max Tune]

Definitely sounds like a balance issue, but if there is a belt failing and causing just a slight bulge somewhere on the tread face of the tire, it will set up a harmonic "wobble" that can't be balanced out. In the pics you posted, I see the rubber around the lugs is showing dry rot cracks. Do you have build dates molded into the sidewall like we have here? How old are the tires?

These cracks are what I'm talking about.

[wil440]

The tyres are maybe 2 to 3 years old, I see what you are saying, the  marks you refer to aren't cracks more like movement areas so road trash doesn't stick if that makes sense

 

I really need to spread some thought on this and analyse what's going on here

 

I need all the help I can get here  

[W-T]

Wil...an irregular wear pattern on these aggressive lugged tyres will be an issue for a period of time. As to what caused this...I don't know but, rotation at every 3000 miles may alleviate some of the high spots eventually.

 

I can only strongly suggest rotating in a specific pattern:

The two fronts swap to the rear to the opposing sides. Your left front goes to the right rear and your right front goes to the left rear.

Your rear tyres do not switch sides. Your left rear, goes forward on the left and your right rear goes forward on the right.

This pattern procedure is normal and recommended for our trucks.

 

I'm going to assume your tyre rotation may not have been accomplished at the 3K mile intervals?

Static-balance would also need to be performed at each tyre rotation interval. Static balance is poor once the tyre sheds rubber as mileage is accumulated.

 

That aspect is one of the primary reasons I elected to use the dynamic balance method provided by Dyna Beads.

 

I must also strongly suggest adhering to the recommendation of REMOVING all static weights from your rims and allow the recommended amount of ONLY Dyna Beads to provide the distributed balance. From the looks of your provided photos, I would well imagine the road manners of this truck at highway speeds (or certain spot speeds) to be very unruly.

 

At this point, you have "lumpy round things" that may improve over time and integrating new  disciplines may allow you achieve better road manners along with extending the life of your investment, basic tyre cost.

 

I do realize my previous statements my have caused alarm in comparing my CTD's road manners at speeds exceeding 100 MPH and considering the speed rating of my 37" Toyo's is a "Q" rating... meaning the manufacturer's DOT specifications, stipulate that 99 MPH is maximum safe speed .... I believe I may have achieved the limit with graceful accuracy.

 

I must add, an additional observance of attention to tracking alignment of the front axle in symmetry to the rear axle.   

   

This is a photo of Don Thuren and myself at his previous shop in Santa Barbara CA discussing the importance of axle alignment between front and rear.

 

Many 4x4 trucks do not track in a straight line, our trucks having the track-bar is what determines this geometry. Don asked me if I had ever noticed, when being in snow conditions, if I had ever noticed how the truck felt when going forward in a straight line? Specifically, "does my truck dog-leg"? He educated me by referring to the geometry of the suspension when moving in a perfect straight line of travel that the "rear" may dog-leg slightly to the right or left? 

 

I was truly thankful having had the opportunity to obtain a Don Thuren Track-Bar and have the Master actually install it at his home shop. He told me he doesn't do such things for other people but, once he viewed the cleanliness of this platform he went to work. The Track-Bar from Thuren is extremely robust and has a Heim-joint on the far right end to allow precision adjustment of the axle to match the geometry of the rear.  He told me I was out of specification by more than a 1/4" and that the new alignment to track "perfectly straight" will make a substantial difference in the feel of "going straight", tire wear, and slight improvement in MPG. He reported seeing the majority of live-axle 4x4's not even being close, to avoiding the sideways "dog-leg" actions due to poor front to rear axle symmetry.

 

   

The entire experience was worth the time, the results of having this track-bar applied and precisionally  aligned to allow both axles to "track straight" gracefully enhanced the manners of this platform.

 

Again, consistent symmetrical tyre wear and I do mean extreme uniformity in appearance along with road manners at all speeds (including ludicrous) is remarkable. I've taken rides with several acquaintances in their trucks. Then, I've taken them for a ride in Betty... they all remark in astounded exuberance of, "Geeeze I gotta fix my truck"

 

I know I needn't speak of proper air pressure and the variation of temperatures effect on PSI and I don't think you're changing altitude between sea level and 7000 feet above sea level very often...so I must surmise the abnormalities your observing have occurred over an extended period of time. Tyres, 315's they are expensive, get rid of the static weights and tell me what you experience. At this point, it's gonna be a bit lumpy.

 

Cheers,

W-T

 

 

 

       

[Max Tune]

I never heard of movement areas. Those tires look old. Looks like sun and ozone have started to dry out and degrade the rubber.

[wil440]

24 minutes ago, Max Tune said:

I never heard of movement areas. Those tires look old. Looks like sun and ozone have started to dry out and degrade the rubber.

The wear on these tyres is so bad and so sudden that I'd expect the tread to be moving and a lot

 

I assure you they are far from old and here in the uk we don't get sun or ozone to the degree that tyres go bad after 2 years

 

 

I'll get better pictures

 

@W-T I'll run it between highway junctions tomorrow and then if no different remove all weights and go to 8oz per wheel 

[Max Tune]

Here in the US, tires are now required to have a date of manufacture molded into the sidewall. Four digits. First two are the week, last two are the year, as in 1421 is fourteenth week of 2021.

You may have had those tires only two years, but they may be 5-6 years old. Ozone is worse on tires than sunlight, but both take their toll. Just seeing the small cracks next to the lugs tells me they are old.

Here are the tires I bought last fall.

Not trying to beat a dead horse on you, but here are the tires on my 3500 dually. Bought it in 2018 with new tires on it. They are now four years old and if you zoom in, you can see small cracks like yours show.

[wil440]

Took my truck 1 junction up the M1 motorway after rotating fronts to back yesterday, wobble gone nothing at all

 

Got a job to go to tomorrow which is 70 odd miles round trip pulling my mobile workshop so that will be another test

 

What I didn't do when I swapped fronts to back is swap the rears onto the fronts left to right which I've since read is recommended so when I get time next week I'm going to swap the fronts left to right and  remove the stick on weights which to be fair don't appear to have any method to where they are stuck on certainly one wheel has 2 sets of  weights on the inside a 1/4 out from each other, then as @W-T says add the rest of the beads up to 8oz

 

If that fails I've checked new Toyo 305/70/16's and they are at £180 each just delivered not fitted ...... right now they may well have to run until they are worn out

 

I did consider that they might be too low a load rating but they are D or 118 or 1320kg per tyre which is 2910lbs, I haven't any equipment to weight the front or better still each front corner, if they are too low I'm into a pile of cost to renew as jack #### here is really any heavier so tyres will have to come from the USA

[W-T]

Good on the M1 motorway run, no wobble is good! If you run them long enough with improved balance I'm guessing the lumpy uneven aspects may wear down and at least give you some time before paying for new rubber. The D load rating on the Toyo's is pretty good...I had Goodyears for a short time, the sidewalls were so weak, I was glad to move over to Toyos.

I do think relying on the Dyna Beads exclusively for balance will be your best bet...let me know what you find.

[AH64ID]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:06 AM, Mopar1973Man said:

Another solution is air rifle BB's. Just dismount the wheel from the truck pull the valve core let the air out break the bead on one side the add the same amount of weight as the dyna beads get the same results. I've got two bottles in my shop for this purpose eventually I'll do it.

I use these in trailer tires, but they are very noisy at low speeds so I don’t recommend them for vehicles.