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We've all done the W-T mod.. but has anyone dealt with interference from outside the truck?


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As best I can describe it, if anyone has been driving a car when the catalytic converter melts down or plugs up the engine gets generally sluggish and struggles under its own weight. Throttle works but no not really because its just bogging it further in a sense.

 

Or how about those of us with Edge tuners who take off driving before it loads and you get that sudden burst of power when it does start working. That sudden contrast between no tune and tune. However in my case only 200 yards prior i was running the tune and it just suddenly fell on its face then as i said its a sudden burst of power when it clears up.

 

I hope that description makes sense because its what my entire issue is but i'll explain it specifically here and just refer to it as "symptoms" to save some typing

 

I have to pass by a particular factory very frequently. Its the main road through town and my route to work or stores unless i take the back way or long way. As i approach this segment of road that these "symptoms" occur for, (haven't measured it exactly but maybe a few hundred yards or so), my edge tuner is typically at level 4 with the boost compensation backed off or level 5 if im in a mood, regardless of load you can feel that level. Suddenly i get those "symptoms". Throttle works. No lights or anything out of the ordinary. I make it that short distance up the road and depending on where my foot is even in level 4 with the boost comp backed off it'll usually dump a little smoke and then back to normal as if nothing happened.

 

I bought this truck in 2016 when i lived in california. maintained it in arizona. still have it in florida. i've literally crossed the country and can solemnly swear this is the only place this has ever happened to the truck. the factory iteslf isnt necessarily close to the road. the nearest power transfer station is about 3/4 of a mile away. no cell towers that im aware of. there is the helicopter field but my house is much closer to the field than this segment of road is. the only other businesses in proximity is a handful of restaurants and stores and i think a parts house and a oil change place and a carwash.

 

I did the W-T mod years ago and even changed the diode if im not mistaken. I've taken care to make sure my batteries are all kept in good shape. APPS is weeks old. There was even a year period of time when the truck was down and it was acting up then too. Happens on both sides of the road but not every single time just 50/50 probably.

 

I thought APPS but its done it with at least 3 different sensors from 3 different companies (OE, Pensacola Fuel Injection, Oreillys Standard ignition currently).

 

Im not exactly expecting results so much as im sharing in hopes someone has some sort of clue because i absolutely do not have any idea what would cause something like this outside of some sort of interference violations i mean this is just weird to me. Im not saying im jumping for a lawyer at all its just one of the weirdest things ive encountered and ive seen some pretty wild complaints having been in dodge dealerships for so long

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Have you tried driving up and down that area of road, with the Edge comp box disconnected, to see what happens.  If it is some type of electronic interference emanating in that area you may have to shield and bond the Edge comp box, ECM, and PCM@W-Twould be able to give a more informative answer on this problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I haven’t gone too far into it so much as I’ve been paying close attention and trying to get more aware with what could be going on and it’s just kinda left me at a dead end with no real clue where to turn.

 

I’ll pop the hood and make sure all my important connections are as good as they can be. And then I’ll disconnect the edge and do some testing. To be fair there’s a couple poor or not ideal aspects of the edge harness that have had me looking into buying a new harness or a quadzilla.. but haven’t had the budget or time to really pursue it any further than remind myself of the price. But even so, I’d expect issues more frequently if it’s a harness issue.

 

Then again it could be some sort of weird interference that’s just exactly right to affect whatever oversight I’ve made and it’s some crazy coincidence.

 

edit: I’m by no means an electrical or wiring professional but I try to maintain a pretty high standard for what i use or how I connect them. All my battery terminals are the “military” ones that Napa sells. 3/8” bolt for your connections and you’ll never have any issues with them I love them. Batteries are Walmart deep cycle and i was hesitant but it’s all I could afford at the time. They seem to do great though don’t have any complaints about them. I solder whenever I can and when I can’t I’m using quality connectors and the weatherproof heat shrink always. I keep my wires tidy and protected the best I can. Clean grounds when I’m there. Try anyways I’m not perfect 

 

 

It’s just speculation though really. I have no firm ground to stand on for anything other than how it’s behaving when it does occur. 

Edited by 2000Ram2500
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W-T was telling me that even the muffler alone with exhaust going thru it will release interference. I think he went so far as to say some radio ham operators are grounding the muffler. So I wonder about the turbo, that things spinning faster than Fox news.

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Now that you mention it I’ve seen quite a few additional grounds in newer vehicles. I used to think they were just putting them in visible or convenient places but now you have me wondering if they’re targeting specific components 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, 2000Ram2500 said:

Now that you mention it I’ve seen quite a few additional grounds in newer vehicles. I used to think they were just putting them in visible or convenient places but now you have me wondering if they’re targeting specific components 

W-T says that lift pumps are one of biggest offenders of interference.

 

Edited by JAG1
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@2000Ram2500 I've carefully read the information in this post and it is interesting.

 

This short stretch of road, where you experience this phenomena, how much time is elapsing from the point where you notice the error and where it curtails? 

 

Is it always at the same "speed" or, does the error occur at any given speed you happen to be at?

 

Is this the ONLY place you've experienced this error?

 

I see that it occurs on either side of the road so I'm assuming you travel this road going to and from your residence on a fairly consistent basis? In this aspect, I must concur with  @IBMobile and encourage you to disengage the EdgeComp to see if this error terminates in the same driving scenario you've indicated.

 

Sorry to become a task-master however; your observations are key points in developing a theoretical analysis.

 

Respectfully,

W-T

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Posted (edited)

@W-T I’ve made some changes to my assumptions over the last couple years.

 

At first I thought it was the torque converter glitching I think I was at speed approximately 50.

 

But quickly I changed to thinking it was a warmup issue because at the time I was heading out passing it but coming back another way due to the stops I had to make on those days.

 

Eventually after living here long enough the first time I got the full dose of the error and I came to pass that spot with a well warmed up truck. I was trying to accelerate to keep up with traffic. Truck was into 2nd by this point and I was pushing the throttle but no go. It was maintaining speed and the throttle could be let off but it wouldn’t “go”. I am no stranger to dead pedal my dad had an 02 with a manual trans and we’d go so far as to key off while rolling down the road to reset the throttle. This wasn’t dead pedal I realized. And suddenly the truck whipped back to life and I unintentionally smoked out the people behind me.

 

Out of all 75k miles I’ve put on it I’m about 99% sure that I’ve never experienced this anywhere else.

 

edit: any speed I’ve traveled between 0 and 55. There’s 2 lights here and it’s common to catch both red or while they’re changing and be sluggish to accelerate out of there but be fine at the previous light and the next light and all the other lights in town. 

 

Ill make it a point to mess with disconnecting the edge and maybe doing a couple passes sometime this week. It’s not a huge issue to me just a really weird one. I wasn’t even gonna write a thread but it’s persisted since 2020. Got me curious as to why

Edited by 2000Ram2500
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It is a curious anomaly in today's automotive world where interference from some unrelated instrument causes issues with an onboard electronic component. I did see your coordinates along with the distance traveled to be very minimal and I'm only guessing...the exact location may be a pathway of unknown RF radiation. I experienced an oddity near Boeing Field in South Seattle where my alarm system would falsely arm itself and trigger the alarm when I activated the lock from my key-fob. With all the large and small micro-wave dishes only 100 yards away pointing directly at the parking lot where my vehicle sat, I experimented and moved my vehicle 60 yards. The next morning, I noted no alarm error as I manipulated the key-fob. The hotel is the one I always stayed at on company business every other month so, I had time to make these observations over a period of time.

 

I realize looking for an electronic Gremlin like this is extremely troublesome. If indeed, you are traveling through a "RF hot spot" momentarily, it is most likely not the fault of the RF generators. To verify this potential field of RF requires some sophisticated electronic test instruments such as a Panoramic Spectrum Analyzer. The monetary value exceeds 25 thousand dollars and most DIY automotive guys don't do this. If you had a friend working in Cellular or commercial Trunk-radio systems. they would have access to such devices. Driving to the area where you have experienced this error and having this device would reveal if an RF field of radiation is permeating the area of question. Time involved in this would not exceed ten minuets. (finding a guy to go chase rabbits like this is the tuff part)

 

If...this is so, then the job begins to locate the sympathetic multi-lead connections that are transporting the offending RF signal into the automotive system. Usually, it's just DC lines that were not properly "by-passed" or "filtered" at the point of entry to the PC board. Our CTD's like all the manufacturers, do not "Research and Develop" military combat grade electronic readiness into civilian vehicles.

 

Don't be concerned, the fix is typically a .1 uF dip capacitor from a DC power lead tied to ground with very short leads. Cost wise...about 35 cents but, you need to know what lead and where. Yeah...I know...we be having fun now and yes, it will take a little time but, it is not impossible. 

 

I would be interested to know what your findings are after you divorce the EdgeComp from the system and make a few passes up and down that road.  

 

W-T         

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I can understand what @W-T is saying about RF energies. Makes a lot of sense. 

 

I still would say remove the tuner first though and verify that the RF energy isn't attacking something like the Edge Comp which could be creating the issue hence run a week with it completely removed. See if the week returns to normal. Being the Edge Comp is riding on the CANBus data and handles it directly. Since the route of the wiring from the CANBus connector on the block to the inside cab makes the bus exposed to RF radiation being none of that is shielded to grounded to the block to keep the signal clean. So by adding a tuner your exposing the Bus to more RF energies in a RF energy rich area like W-T example. The only shielded CANBus data is between the ECM to VP44 which is actually covered in shield jacket.  As you can see Orange/Brown wire noted in the wiring which has no pin at the injection pump being its deadheaded at the end of the VP44 plug.

 

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Edited by Mopar1973Man
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I’m definitely going to pursue the edge as a suspect because I’ve had issues with it in the past and although I may have the wires connected securely like you’ve mentioned it’s more exposed right off the bat. Not to mention the number of issues people have with the edge in general at least based on how many posts and threads I’ve seen related to it.

 

last I remember and it’s been a little while but I’m pretty sure I saw that you have to actually disconnect the edge from everywhere you can’t just unplug it from the obd or anything simple. 

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I'm know nothing about RF absolutly zero

 

BUT  I go to a regeneration site in Walsall, West Midlands basically the company I go to repair stuff for is contracted to make a huge area that was once a Dunlop belt factory clean to be rebuilt on, there is also a very old tip at the back of this site, anyway I digress as on my way to the site there is a 100 yard stretch of a road that really seriously bugs out the radio on my truck to the point of a deafening buzz that is much louder than the volume of the station I am listening to was set at, yes the station is on AM so interference is the norn but even electricity pylons don't make that sound, I'm going there on Tuesday so will note what the buildings are but IIRC I'm sure it's an Engineering Company so might be big lathes, mills induction stuff :shrug: No where else I drive makes a noise like it, it's like a very low frequency drone/buzz and loud

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Hey Neal, the aspects of RF follow strict engineering guidelines and a little black magic in practice. The commercial Broadcast frequency allotment for AM (amplitude modulation) falls in the spectrum between 540 KHz and 1.6 Mhz and that carries over into your geographical corner of the world. There are only 3 ITU (International Telecommunications Union) regions world wide. You are in ITU region 1 along with all of Europe including the middle East, the US, Canada and South America are designated in ITU region 2 and all of Asia to the Philippines including Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands and Hawaii are designated ITU region 3.

 

The ITU is worldwide with over 280 countries (North Korea not included) and they all agree to the frequency spectrum divisional standards. This assists manufacturers producing radios, televisions, cell phones...ect. to be on the same page from a frequency or channelized standpoint for worldwide distribution,

 

The AM broadcast band is subject to band conditions on a daily basis along with solar conditions that vary over an 11 year period of time. The low frequencies being used for AM Broadcast are located on the bottom edge of the (old terminology) Short Wave band...and serves its purpose quite well. In regard to our "receivers" in these CTD platforms none of them are considered reference receivers. None of the worldwide Automobile manufacturers incorporate bullet-prof radio receivers into their products. 

 

The tremendous noise or interference you're encountering in that specific area, that has an audio envelope exceeding that of the desired (legitimate) station's signal appears to be fundamental overload of your receiver. Simply, the RF radiation in that particular location is most likely a spur or birdie from the generating device or it's a direct fundamental RF field emanating illegally from the generating source. If it is NOT a legitimate licensed Broadcast facility and this interference exceeds a distance of 300 meters from the generating source with a force greater than X micro-volts per meter (RF amplitude measurement) then you have found a law-breaker. The commercial Broadcast stations in that geographical area would be very displeased to have their signal being jammed by an extraneous RF signal source. All electronic devices shall not generate harmful interference to commercial, law enforcement, aviation, military or home electronic entertainment devices. All it takes is one person who wishes to receive a legitimate broadcast signal, make a complaint and show the actual interfering signal compromising the quality of the desired signal. If there is a device operating on the premises of this industrial location that is producing this "hash" on the commercial Broadcast band and you bring this to their attention...their engineering staff or management should take this seriously.  Ignorance of the law in regard to RF radiation exceeding predetermined levels of acceptance can be met with fines exceeding $10,000.00 each day of non-compliance.

 

Regarding your receiver, they are standard dual conversion Superhetrodyne in design. Its a reliable and stable form of demodulating a RF envelope and extracting the audio information from the fundamental carrier frequency. Many are quite good, some are just marginal with reasonable sensitivity however; none of them can perform properly in a strong RF field of radiation. Reference receivers used in specialized facilities or military installations adopt Rohde & Schwarz ($40,000.00) Rockwell Collins ($30,000.00)

and others in the tens of thousands of $ make excellent receiver/demodulators and well beyond our automotive needs. Non the less, you've found a source of undesirable RF with your radio receiver and it came with the truck...no additional investment required. Your suspicion of large inductive electromechanical  single or three  phase motors are suspect but, they should operate with broadband interference levels not exceeding 10 to 30 meters in distance.

 

Neal, you probably wished you hadn't asked...and I haven't even began to go off the rails yet but, it's Sunday evening and I should go find a cold pint...let me know if you decide to go look around that facility? Take a little transistor pocket radio with you...I'd bet you can walk right up to the generating source.

 

Oh...here is a photo of some radios....I assault the planet with these.

 

 

1aa.jpg.b2bb571f690651b18bf7724410e15a6d.jpg

           

Cheers,

W-T

 

 

 

 

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