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georgels1

Yet another 2001 Dodge cummins fuel pump question

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georgels1

Can the main computer shut down the Bosch VP44 if there is a cooling problem or temp sensor error? I have been having cooling problems on hot days and under load. After flushing radiator, the engine ran normally for 5 minutes down the freeway and then suddenly stopped and wouldn't start. (as if it ran out of fuel) . Fuel pressure from lift pump is OK. Fuel to the injection pump inlet OK but nothing at the injectors. There was no missing, no smoke, no roughness, good 23 mpg, just before shutdown. Coolant temp was normal. It seems odd that the VP44 would fail after I was working on the coolant system. Is there an internal fuel shutoff solenoid inside the VP44? Any insight would be appreciated!

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Dave3500

Coolant Temp was normal? That doesn't make sense to me either. What codes did you throw? I'd check there first.Let us know,Dave

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dually

A few things come to mind,Did you flush heater core?I know you said the temp was normal.My truck did strange things when i had bad grounds.I would start checking.The one in front of driver side battery where 6 of them come together?When my ecm went south i had all sorts of "false" codes.I know the ecm can cut fuel at high rpm's.It also turns the lift pump on/off. Check fuel relay under the pdc.Also if you wanted to test the thing take the wires off the factory harness for the lift pump and run them to a toggle switch to the battery and take it for a ride.Before i would do that i would check the fuel relay and the grounds.

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Dave3500

Gr8 advise Dually! After you cleaned your grounds, did you put any electrical grease on them, like guys do on Battery posts. Just was wondering if that's a good idea or not is all.Thanks,Dave

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LiveOak

How much fuel did you have in the tank? Or I should ask, how much fuel was the fuel gauge showing in the tank?

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georgels1

I had a generic fault 1693 (key off and on) but I don't have scan tool for secondary codes....does anyone have a inexpensive scan tool recommendation? Also, coolant temperature read normal (~180F) while driving on the freeway unloaded just before shutdown. Cooling problem occured only under load or real hot day >100F. I flushed the radiator, had a brief circulation (air lock) problem, and then cooling system appeared to be operating normally for about ten minutes before the complete shutdown. Fuel tank was low (1/8) Fuel low indicator had just come on. Computer indicated 70 more miles of fuel. I have never had a fault with computer fuel estimate or fuel gauge but I suppose it "could" have run out of fuel. More fuel and prime the injection pump will be first step when I get home from work tonight (in my rental car:cry:) but I think it is more serious. I did a quick check loosening the fuel filter and I'm getting "good" pressure but I did not install a gauge. NAPA Lift pump is "only" 3 years old....Iknow:badidea:

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LiveOak

Fuel tank was low (1/8) Fuel low indicator had just come on. Computer indicated 70 more miles of fuel. I have never had a fault with computer fuel estimate or fuel gauge but I suppose it "could" have run out of fuel. More fuel and prime the injection pump will be first step when I get home from work tonight (in my rental car:cry:) but I think it is more serious. I did a quick check loosening the fuel filter and I'm getting "good" pressure but I did not install a gauge. NAPA Lift pump is "only" 3 years old....Iknow:badidea:

If the truck will not restart, my money is on the "you ran out of fuel" option. The fuel sending units in these fuel tanks are NOTORIOUS for giving HUGELY inaccurate indications. I suggest you try filling the fuel tank with 10 or more gallons of diesel fuel. Bleed the fuel system upto and INCLUDING the fuel injectors (you can bleed the first 2 or 3 injectors which is not the shop book option but will get the truck started. (injector 5 and 6 are a muther jumper to get to and bleed) Then try starting your truck. The truck, when it starts is NOT gonna be happy about running on 2 or 3 cylinders but this will not harm anything. Keep your rpms up around 1,500 to 2,000 rpm until the engine smooths out and runs smooth and clean. It should idle and run fine after that. If you have some questions about bleeding the fuel system....... I can post a simplified but somewhat messy procedure for you.

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dually

Liveoak does have a good point.My fuel gauge read 1/4 tank and i ran out.The sending unit took a dump.If you turn the key on 3 times and leave it on the 3rd time what codes come out?If you have a 1693 you have more.You cant just have a 1693.

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georgels1

sorry for the delay! I added yet another 5 gallons of fuel and the guage is reading 1/4 and the fuel light went off. If you all recall, the engine stopped suddenly going down the freeway with about 1/8 tank of fuel and the fuel low indicator had just come on. I had flushed the radiator 1 hour earlier. I checked all the electrical (ground and positive posts, relays, fuses) and I confirmed that I had ground and 12volts on pin 6 and 7 respectively of the VP44 electrical connector during "on" and "start". Did not have 12 volts on pin 5, hence, appears signals to VP44 are normal. Still have only P1693 general fault code , but the check engine indicator finally came on. I was told by several sources that I needed a DRBIII scan tool to get the secondary codes, but I don't have one. Fuel pressure is strong at the VP44 supply port (at least it squirted out strong to every nook and cranny of the engine compartment when I loosened the banjo to bleed air out of the lines). Napa lift pump is only 3 years old. Loosened high pressure lines 1,3,4,5 at the injector and cranked for about 30 seconds several times. Got only a dribble out of line 4. Looks like I need to replace the VP44 unless you guys can think of anything else!

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guesswho512

sounds like your fuel sending unit is going out or maybe your float is just out of wack :shrug:

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LiveOak

I would definitely get an OBDIII scan tool or you can borrow a friend's Smarty if they have one to check and verify what if any codes may be stored in the ECM. What exactly is the fuel pressure at the VP-44? You will need a fuel pressure test guage. This is one very similar to what I use. http://www.vulcanperformance.com/Fuel-Pressure-Tester-with-Schrader-Connection-p/fpt.htm Although is does sound like your lift pump is making pressure and pushing fuel up to the IP, you should know exactly how much. Sometimes these pumps gradually die a slow death and take out the IP with it. If you were able to bleed the fuel lines upto the fuel injector and through the VP-44 as well as have good fuel pressure, it is looking like the VP-44 may be Kaput.

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Mopar1973Man

Yep... You need to get a scan tool and read your error codes. Also you need to check your lift pump pressure(s). As for the fuel pressure you need a pressure gauge in the cab so you can watch both idle and WOT throttle extremes... The needle should stay in the green all the time!

Posted Image

2001 Dodge's are known for not reporting both computer so what you saw was the PCM error codes P1693 pointing to the ECM... But the ECM never display it just rolled over to the odometer...

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQJmaIF9Do

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georgels1

What a roller coaster! I was about to give up and pull the VP44, but I gave it one more crank. I got fuel at three injectors and so I tightened them up and cranked it ..../.boomm it started. The alternator immediately started billowing smoke....panic...... but it cleaned up shortly and appears to be charging and cycling OK. Still not sure about the original reason it stopped on the freeway, but logic dictates it must of run out of fuel...=> bad fuel sender sensor.....or weak lift pump How about this theory: The coolant reservoir overflowed and spilled into the alternator. This caused a major fault in the main computer which immediately shutdown the lift pump and VP44. I had just flushed and attempted to refilled the radiator but it did not seem to take much. Driving out my driveway, temperature gauge hit 220F almost immediatly. I stopped and popped the radiator cap (w/big rag) and radiator was cold...but needed alot more coolant. I then headed down the freeway and the temperature gauge came to ~180 as it normally does....but it may have been ejecting excess coolant from the reservoir. Shrug Lessons learned: 1) You really have to crank the engine alot to re-prime the fuel injection pump. Be careful not to burn up the starter! 2)I was told alot of fuel would come out the high pressure lines if the VP44 was primed and working properly. Also I was told if the VP44 was bad, I would get no fuel or a dribble out of one high pressure line. NOT THE CASE! I got no fuel for about three ~20 second cranking attempts. I then got a dribble out one injector after two more 20 second cranking attempts. Finally, I got a dribble out of three injector lines on the seventh 20 second cranking attempt. It then started, ran rough, cleared up and idled after a minute or so. Starts fine now. Good thing I have bigass batteries (Yellowtop optima) and a good charger for all that cranking I'm going to replace lift pump just in case it was somehow the problem all along. VP44 appears to be fine, so I'm not sure the weak lift pump logic applies. Now its back to the original cooling problem....thanks for all the help!!

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Dave3500

Cool G1,

I'm happy for you that you got her runnin' again. I'm like you in one respect electrical problems are not my strong suite. So the next time your light for fuel & you get the warning chime, don't run out of fuel & get to the nearest station. BTW, are you adding something to protect your VP44 from the very low lubrication of the ULSD?

On the bright side, you now have up to date coolant, so you did something to help in the longevity of your CTD. Try to get a FP gauge on as soon as possible. Take a look at Michael's 0-30, I like that one best, mine only goes to 20, & I think it was like 50 bucks or so or a half tank of fuel!

Let us know if this really was in fact the problem, we've got our fingers crossed! (-:

Long live your CTD,

Dave

--- Update to the previous post...

OH yes,

WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave

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LiveOak

How about this theory: The coolant reservoir overflowed and spilled into the alternator. This caused a major fault in the main computer which immediately shutdown the lift pump and VP44.

I think you ran out of fuel. The fuel level indicators in these trucks are notorious for going bad and giving a false reading. I never run my truck below a half tank. My truck will run out of fuel just below 3/4 of a tank indicated on the fuel guage.

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Dave3500

I must be lucky here on my gauge, I can run mine below the line with no worries, it does have about a gallon in it at that point. I did that before I have to drop the tank. Had to drop the tank to change my brake line last June.

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LiveOak

I must be lucky here on my gauge, I can run mine below the line with no worries, it does have about a gallon in it at that point. I did that before I have to drop the tank. Had to drop the tank to change my brake line last June.

I would NOT count on the accuracy of the fuel gauge. Mine used to read in the same manner as yours does. Everything worked fine including the low fuel light and chime. Then out of nowhere with just under 3/4 of a tank of fuel showing, the engine just instantly died while driving up a steep hill on a narrow stretch of rural highway. Here is an article on repairing the fuel sender but these things are made out of cheap chinese crap that does not last. http://dodgeram.org/tech/repair/fuel_sender/Huey_C-sender.htm

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Mopar1973Man

On a dry fuel system I normally prime all the way to the injection pump and make sure the fuel is running out of the banjo bolt or fuel line at the VP44... Then crack 1,3,4 and go to cranking... When I see fuel spray like a power washer under the hood I know I tighten the fuel lines... Dribbling doesn't count... VP44 pump still produces 4,000-5,000 PSI during cranking so it should spray everywhere if primed. Then tighten 1,3,4 and fire up...

Simular to ISX video that he did cracking injection lines...

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dripley

my fuel gauge still reads fine. i can put it in the red no problem. about 3 or 4 years ago the dealer installed an in tank pump for my failed lift pump on the engine. it changed the way my gauge would read. i can still put it in the red but not very long. i sarted setting my trip odometer after each fill up and use that to cnfirm what my fuel gauge is telling me. ran out once but that was my fault. try to strectch it a little to far:shrug:

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